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Difference in technique for slow&fast drop, and slice

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by BadJY, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. BadJY

    BadJY Regular Member

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    Hey,
    I searched the forums, but I didn't find much about difference in the technique used for each drop.
    Having said that, I really want to know the difference in each drop technique. Is the fast drop a wrist flick? What about the slow drop? Or do they both use wrist? Is there any "tapping" involved? And what do people mean when they say it's a "touch" shot? Normally I just do a wrist flick, but I find it goes way too far, it's not tight, and I can't direct the shot, although it goes fast.
    And what about slicing? I know it's hitting with a angled racket face, but I really don't understand how it exactly works, I've tried it but I just don't get it. I'm more of a visual person, so that might explain why, as I have never seen anyone do it(I might just not recognize someone doing it anyways).
    Thanks.
     
    #1 BadJY, Nov 11, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2007
  2. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

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    fast and slow drops, along with clearing and smashing, all use basically the same stroke. fast and slow drops differ because of the pace at which it is hit. in reality, a smash is just hit harder than a drop(basically) and a fast drop is hit harder than a slow drop. it's a continuum.

    as for slicing, it involves playing the shuttle with the racquet moving left to right, or right to left, rather than playing forwards into the shuttle. there is some forward action, but much of it is the racquet moving left to right, or right to left, depending on what slice you want, and your handedness.

    look up the 2007 All England video composition of clips. there are some excellent demonstrations of slicing actions.
     
  3. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    To get an overhead shot to drop, you can:
    • hit it softly
    • hit it more quickly at a sharp contact angle
    • hit it fairly forcefully, but with slice
    The first option is easy to do, but the shot is slow, so quick moving opponents can put pressure on you if you do it. Also, since the motion of the racquet is much slower than that of a smash, there isn't as much room for deception with this shot. This shot is the slow drop.

    The second option is the fast drop. Instead of significantly slowing the racquet before contact, swing speed is kept fairly high and the shuttle is contacted at a sharper angle to get it to drop. This type of drop is not as tight as a slow drop, but the advantage is that it takes less time to get below the level of the net, which means your opponent is not as likely to take advantage of it.

    The third option is the slice. In this case you can hit harder (even with smashing power), but instead of transferring all that power into the shot, you hit the shuttle with an angled face on its side. The advantage of this shot is that your opponent gets no cue from you slowing down your racquet before you contact. So, he has to be ready for a powerful shot, which increases the effectiveness of a drop shot.
     
  4. Loopy

    Loopy Regular Member

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    Don't worry, slicing takes a LOT of practice to at least get something decent out of it. But it's really great because it combines the speed of the fast drop, and the tightness of the slow drop so that it lands nearer to the net than the service line.
    You know that you need to rotate your arm and forearm during a normal stroke right? So when you start the forward swing, the right palm should be facing you, and at the finish, you should see your knuckles. That is basically how you do it to slice forward or to the right (and also for every shot). Only the control of the racket face is paramount...
    For slicing to the left side, I am not sure of the technique at all. I think instead of the pronation of the forearm, it's more of a supination ???
     
  5. BadJY

    BadJY Regular Member

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    That's what I don't understand. Everytime I try to slice, it does a crosscourt drop lol and I'm trying to hit it with from right to left or left to right. I realize there must be something wrong with my technique.
     
  6. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    That's right, the slice goes crosscourt of where you swing. For example, if you swing straight, the slice goes crosscourt. If you swing crosscourt, the slice goes straight.
     
  7. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

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    erm...i'm talking about the racquet head movement. and most slices go cross court. so, if you're right handed, in your backhand corner, and you swing the racquet from right to left with a slight forward action (to give it momentum) then it be a crosscourt drop. as you get better, you can end up slicing with the same action, but the shuttle is a straight drop. that's added deception. they think it's a fast shot(from your racquet speed) and also don't know if it goes cross or straight. then, you can add more forward action, so they have even more trouble guessing the speed. e.g., you play a jumping crosscourt slice, and it looks like a full on smash. and it lands about the same place as a jump smash would land, but slower. the opponent, thinking it's a fast shot, puts less pace on to play the shot, but because it really is in fact a slower shot, the shuttle goes into the net. often i use this type of deception. i play overhead slice, and it has the same trajectory as a smash. they treat it like a smash and so, it goes into the net. of course, you don't do that all the time, because if they catch on, it's not so good. but it'll get you a few points.
     
  8. jer0me

    jer0me Regular Member

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    err. which drops has a better chance to winning yur opponent??
     
  9. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

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    that's not the best way to think about it. don't think of any shot as being an outright winner, because the chances of a drop being a point winner straight away is very small. you've got to keep moving him around before you go for any winners.

    as for which drop is better, well, slice. it has a flight path with does not follow it's racquet speed swing, which makes it very deceptive. if you get good enough, you can slice straight and crosscourt with the same action, making it just as effective as a normal drop. in fact, Zhao Jianhua almost always used slice shots.

    the problem is that slice shots are very very hard to control, simply because you're swinging the racquet at high speeds, yet it's a delicate shot. swing too much, and it'll go out. swing too little, it ends up like a normal drop, but flatter, so it's more dangerous for you, plus it's slower. it's probably not a good idea to just keep slicing. instead, play like Bao Chunlai, who pairs slicing half-smashes (i.e. slices which have a bit of pace) and strong, steep smashes. that way, the opponent HAS to stay put and be ready to defend a smash, instead of rushing forward expecting a slice shot. if all you do is slice, the opponent merely takes a step forward from his base, and you're in trouble. if you give him smashes to worry about as well, he's in for a hard game.

    but do not stop using normal drops. they're are still integral to the game and ensure variety in your shots, so they never know what you're playing next. also, slices are almost always done when you're in position, and waiting for the shuttle. even professionals have trouble when moving back and hitting a slice under pressure. in that situation, the best shot is a normal drop/half-smash/clear. so don't abandon that trusty drop.
     
    #9 Shifty, Nov 13, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2007
  10. jer0me

    jer0me Regular Member

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    thanks shifty i understand now.. thanks..
     
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    If you're skilful enough, you should be slicing every drop shot. Slicing can produce fast or slow drops, straight or cross-court. Slicing can be used even when you're in trouble, taking the shuttle from behind you (cross-court slice from the forehand rear corner is a a classic "get out of trouble" men's singles shot).

    Professional players use frightening amounts of slice on their drop shots. Check out Antony Clark's games (with partner Donna Kellog) from the 2007 All England, for a masterclass in slicing.
     
    #11 Gollum, Nov 14, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2007
  12. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Drop shots without slice look crude and you can read it a mile away. All drops, fast and slow, are best executed with a slice, which will bring in the element of deception.
     
  13. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

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    ahhh...but can us mere mortal's slice every drop from every position? i know that slicing from the forehand is used a lot, to get out of trouble, like when you're playing it low. but what about backhand side, reverse slices? those are rather hard when you're stretching back, and out of balance.

    and no, normal drop shots are not crude. if you know how to hit them correctly, they end up with the same stroke as a smash(except the speed of course) and are deceptive. why do top players still use a normal drop shot? aside from chinese girls, who slice like crazy. most male players, when not given time, will almost always play the drop with normal stroke. there may be a hint of slicing, so it goes in the right direction, but you will rarely see them play reverse slices in trouble.

    i'm not sure about your drop shots, but mine seem to be pretty deceptive, deceptive enough that they're not "reading it a mile away".
     
  14. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    As I mentioned, you control your dropshots by controlling speed, contact angle and degree of slice. Once you learn to slice, you can stop thinking about it as a separate shot, but instead think of how much slice (+speed and contact angle) you need to get the particular trajectory you're looking for.
     
  15. Kiwiplayer

    Kiwiplayer Regular Member

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    Over the years I've played against a few professional, Olympic and Commonwealth games players in a variety of settings (practice, tournaments, provincial rep matches etc) and while they certainly play more slices than normal people, by no means do they slice all the time. I'm talking specifically about drop shots here.

    But then, it probably helps to define what "slice" means to me (well aware that others may have different interpretations).

    Firstly, there's the slice you need to impart on the shuttle to get it to go where you want with the speed that you want. This type of slicing is one that just about everyone does whether they realise it or not. It's just a part of the stroke to get the result you want and if you were try to teach it as a slice, then you end up just confusing the learner. Just like the Nike slogan, you "Just Do It"

    The second type of slicing is the type where you're actively imparting a slice to deceive your opponent by making the flight of the shuttle not match up to the racquet movement from the point of view of the opponent. This is what I tend to think of as "slice". The professionals play much more of these types of slices than normal people, but they certainly don't play them all the time.

    As an example, here's a random YouTube clip
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5INXeGlddE

    Although there's not too much dropping going on here (as these top players tend to just smash the crap out of everything), of the drops that are played, I'd only consider one (maybe two) of them to be the second type of slice. The rest are just normal drop shots. Sure they're putting some slice on the shuttle for the other dropshots, but that's because the shot requires it, rather than for deception.

    Wayne Young

    Edit: Stumblingfeet just said what I wanted to say, but far more succinctly
     
  16. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    In general, "slicing" means to strike the shuttle with an angled racket face on impact (relative to the subsequent path of the shuttle). The alternative is to strike the shuttle perpendicular to its subsequent path.

    In this sense, any stroke played with an angled racket face is a slice. Slicing also frequently involves brushing or dragging the strings across the shuttle as you contact it.

    Confusingly, "slice" is used to refer to a specific type of slicing action for overhead strokes. This sense of "slice" is "slice as opposed to reverse slice".

    Slicing (in the general sense) has two possible positive consequences when used for a drop shot:
    • A more deceptive stroke, both in terms of direction and power.
    • A superior trajectory, where the shuttle's path curves slightly and steepens as it passes the net.
    A second confusion of terminology arises from "deception". The only truly "deceptive" strokes are those that actually deceive your opponent. So if your stroke causes him to move in the wrong direction, then it's deceptive.

    Yet there is also a distinction between obvious strokes (where your opponent can tell what you will play before you hit the shuttle) and strokes that are difficult to read (because your hitting action is similar for several different strokes).

    The effects will vary depending on the opposition. Applying slice to your drop shots may deceiver beginners; the same shot may fail to deceive skilful players, yet still slow them down (because they can't read it); and professionals might move to intercept your shot before you even hit it, because they can read you.
     
  17. bananakid

    bananakid Regular Member

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    As good and simple of an explanation as it possible can be... :cool:
     
  18. Loopy

    Loopy Regular Member

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    Gollum,

    to slice the shuttle to the right, you do a normal arm pronation right (for a right hander)?
    Now to slice the shuttle to the left, is it still a pronation or a supination ?????
     
  19. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That's right. In a power stroke, such as a clear or smash, you pronate so that the racket faces straight forwards on impact. After impact, you continue to pronate, so that the racket faces out to your right. This position, with the racket facing somewhat to your right, is the position of contact for slicing to the right. This is called reverse slice. You can imagine that reverse slice is a similar motion to a "normal" stroke, except the timing is altered so that you hit when the racket has already rotated to the right.

    When slicing to the left, however, the hitting action is different. You should of course make the same preparation as for a clear or smash; and you should begin your swing in the same way -- up until the moment when you would normally pronate. For this slice, you do not pronate (or you pronate very little). For the maximum slice, you will even need to supinate your arm somewhat as you brush around the shuttle.
     

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