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do you know the Law for service court errors?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by kwun, Feb 27, 2002.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    a friend of mine pointed this to me, some part of the Law that i and a lot of other people weren't aware of.

    12. SERVICE COURT ERRORS

    12.1 A service court error has been made when a player:
    12.1.1 has served out of turn;
    12.1.2 has served from the wrong service court; or
    12.1.3 standing in the wrong service court, was prepared to receive the service and it has been delivered.
    12.2 If a service court error is discovered after the next service has been delivered, the error shall not be corrected.
    12.3 If a service court error is discovered before the next service is delivered:
    12.3.1 if both sides commiteed an error, it shall be a 'let'
    12.3.2 if one side committed the error and won the rally, it shall be a 'let'
    12.3.3 if one side committed the error and lost the rally, the error shall not be corrected
    12.4 If there is a 'let' because of a service court error, the rally is replayed with the error corrected.
    12.5 If a service court error is not to be corrected, play in that game shall proceed without changing the players' new service courts (nor, when relevant, the new order of serving).
     
  2. Don

    Don Regular Member

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    I know about these rules. However, I rely on the judge to spot it; else, it's the honour system. It really gets annoying when a person constantly points out things like this in recreational play, but tournament play, I can see it being a necessity. You have to see squashes system for let calls, that's a mind bender.
     
  3. marshall

    marshall Regular Member

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    If you ever have to apply this rule, it's best to have the rule book with you, because the differences between 12.3.2 and 12.3.3 will appear arbitrary. I've often thought that this is one rule which requires a flow chart. According to an accredited IBF umpire, the key to understanding the various provisions is the side committing the error should not be allowed to benefit thereby. [Of course, this doesn't work when the error is not discovered before the next serve is delivered, based on the rule as you've cited it.]

    Last year I was asked to rule on a service court error during a Senior Olympics tournament. Fortunately I had thought about this problem, so when I walked out to the court I asked 1) Who delivered the serve? 2) Which side was in wrong court? 3) Which side won the rally? 4)Has the next serve been delivered? Answers: 1) We did (Side A) 2) We were (A again) 3) Side A 4) No.
    So I ruled to play a let with Side A serving on the correct sides.
    Side B, who had agreed with every fact established in the answers, then said "You mean that they made the error and they still get another chance? They should have that point erased and have to go to second server."

    Somebody will be unhappy with the ruling every time, IMO, so have the book to back you up. Then reasonable players will understand the ruling and continue play, as Side B did.

    BTW, I disagree with Don. I think it's useful to tell people they're about to serve/receive in the wrong court, even during recreational play, because it helps prevent the error when they're playing tournaments, and it teaches newer players where they should be standing.
     
  4. Don

    Don Regular Member

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    Maybe I should elaborate on recreational play. I agree beginners should be reminded, but the more experienced which do not usually make the error can let it pass.
     
  5. badrad

    badrad Regular Member

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    On that same note, how many of us have been in a situation where all four players completely forgot who served last. Usually this follows after an intense rally, or maybe just all of us are getting old and senile. It is a bit embarassing when all four experienced players can't remember something that happened a few seconds earlier.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    What happens if the error is only realised after some points have been played? How many 'lets' are played?
     
  7. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    According to the rules, if you have errored and have gone on to play, then the error is not to be corrected but play to resume as if the error was played correctly.

    Badrad, you do have a point especially after an intense rally, none of the players could remembered who has last served (let alone whose point it should be) :D :D

    One practise that I followed is the announce the score before each serve so that all four players know (& hopefully remember later). For me, I tend to remember what I'd say previous so it's like a marker of some kind (but I gotta admit and I sometimes forget to annouce the score before the serve too).. :D

    So, as an example, I would say "5-4-1" or "5-4 second serve", etc.
     
  8. TDotSmAsHer

    TDotSmAsHer Regular Member

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    UGh.. i have a problem... related to serving... some guy at my club annoying me ... everytime I do a short serve.. playing a game with someone else, he would come up to me and tell me that it had to be below the "waist" ... but isn't the waste the bottom of your ribs or somethin? .... Anyways.... I'm annoyed.. || close from punching him in the face.
     
  9. Brett

    Brett Regular Member

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    Newbie, are you actually Bill, talking about me? I really pissed off some occasional player in my league this week by telling him that his serves were illegal because his racquet was parallel when it hit the shuttle and I explained to him the rule that the top of the grip must be above the top of the frame. I was very polite, and was trying to be informative (I told him about it after a point and didn't try penalizing him for the error given that he clearly didn't know the rule). The guy responded by childishly acting like a goof while serving to mock my insistence that we play by the rules. Five serves later he was back to serving with his racquet parallel to the ground, so I called an illegal serve on him, getting him really upset. I hardly ambushed him with the rules here - it's not my fault if he isn't smart enough to remember a rule five minutes after he is told about it.

    Newbie, hopefully you are not the guy about whom I am talking, who clearly needs to grow up. Hopefully you can sort out your situation without any problems, like the ones I faced a few days ago. As far as I can tell, the official IBF rules all make sense and it makes for a better, more uniform and more fair game if everyone plays by those rules.
     
  10. TDotSmAsHer

    TDotSmAsHer Regular Member

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    Nope thats not me, the guy who was tellin me I was serving illegally I didn't even know. He just approaches me and starts telling me my serves were illegal cause i didn't serve below the waist when I know i did, while i was playing with my buddies. At fisrt, I just said "OK" cause i wanted him to go away. But after that first comment, he starts to watch our game and told me to serve below my waist everytime I served. I ended up ignoring him and he was still talking like I was paying attention to him. He walks in front of me, and "demonstrates" the model serve (my ass). My serve is below the waist (the bottom of ribs right?) and wasn't paralell to the floor. This was at a club I play in frequently in Toronto during the weekends.
     
  11. Brett

    Brett Regular Member

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    Slightly different problem, slightly different city, slightly different country, so I'm glad it wasn't you Newbie.

    That sounds like extremely presumptuous behavior from that guy. Now I'll grant it is somewhat difficult for a person to tell specifically where their racquet is in relation to their waist at the time of serve, but this guy seemed to have some obsession with you. Did you ask the others on the court what they thought of your serves? If they thought your serves were legal, maybe you should have told this guy that he was having some pretty bizarre fantasies about where your waistline starts and you wish he'd stop looking at your midsection and mind his own business.
     
  12. marshall

    marshall Regular Member

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    Just to stir the soup a bit: I was talking to a long-time international player at a tournament a few months back about the "where's my waist?" problem and he said
    "I just wish they (the IBF) would pick a height and have everyone contact the shuttle at that height or below. If that rule had some people serving from chest height or above, no problem." He suggested somewhere between 42 to 44 inches, which would prevent throwing the shuttle in the air and doind a tennis serve.

    Sounds like a fair rule to me. What do you think?
     
  13. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Unless you say something like "contact has to be made below the net" it would be impossible to put to practice. What would the service judges relate to? At least with the "bottom rib" mark they can use the actual person as a measuring stick... Or they'd have to start taping all matches on video and decide from the replays... :)
     
  14. marshall

    marshall Regular Member

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    How about a stripe of a different color in the net itself? If the net is at regulation height the stripe would automatically be at the limiting height.
     
  15. jchan

    jchan New Member

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    Is these extracts from BWF Laws of Badminton? Just that my version of Secion 12 only have 12.1 & 12.2?!
     
  16. blableblibloblu

    blableblibloblu Regular Member

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    2002


    having intense 10 years necros lately






     
  17. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Yes, the rule has been changed in 2012 to:


    12. SERVICE COURT ERRORS
    12.1 A service court error has been made when a player:
    12.1.1 has served or received out of turn; or
    12.1.2 has served or received from the wrong service court;
    12.2 If a service court error is discovered, the error shall be corrected and the existing score shall stand.
     
  18. Iaincs

    Iaincs Regular Member

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    In the following situation (an actual example from a recent match of ours) what do you think would be the current interpretation of law 12...

    Doubles match. Score is 9-9. Team A serve and lose the point. Score is called "service over. 10-9" Serve passes to Team B who realise they were in the wrong positions to receive the previous point....

    What happens next.......
     
  19. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

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    The service court error law was changed when the scoring system changed to best of 3 to 21.
    For many players the old law was difficult to understand. The new law reads that whatever the circumstances, a service court error shall be corrected as soon as it has been discovered. The score in this case is completely irrelevant. There are no lets anymore.
     

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