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Does your Club or Players routinely test the shuttle speed?

Discussion in 'Shuttlecock' started by Ruffle, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    The reason I ask is because I've played in dozens of clubs in different parts of the world, and without exception, every one of these clubs has supplied shuttles which are much too slow. When tested, they fall well short.

    Now, I know that the test takes player ability into account, but at most clubs I've attended, I've quickly become a team member (he said modestly :)) so when I'm testing a shuttle, the length I get should be on the long side of correct for the club standard - but it NEVER is.

    What experience do you have of this? Have I just been unlucky?:mad:
     
  2. dffhkhksg

    dffhkhksg Regular Member

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    Bring your own if you don't like them. Often times club owners don't take into account canadian climate
     
  3. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    Thanks, but I've played mostly in Scotland, a bit in Germany, a bit in France, and most recently in Canada, and as I said, in all cases the shuttle speed has been below rules. I asked for your experiences - are you saying that you have never seen this problem at club level? I know from my own experience that this is not a problem at national level and above. I'm just guessing here, but I'm willing to bet a box of "club level" shuttles that most visitors to this site are club players and not internationalists :D.

    Oh, by the way, our enclosed spaces here in Canada do actually have climate control.
     
  4. Sevex

    Sevex Regular Member

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    No they don't test them. In fact the club I play at at the moment I would say the shuttles are too slow and they get slower with use, so by the end of a game they are very slow. The problem is I personally can't seem to master the shuttle testing technique, so they will always fall well short when I test them... I should really try to learn again as I am much better as a player than last year when I last tried to learn it.

    Out of the four clubs I have played at only one routinely tested shuttle speed, one does occasionally the other two never do/did.
     
  5. phili

    phili Regular Member

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    During our club league matches or in tournaments we almost always test the shuttle speed. When we are training we just take a shuttle out of the tube and play with it. We play with RSL's tourney classics and they seem pretty consistent in speed so no testing necessary.
     
  6. 96382

    96382 Regular Member

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    Always testing. Lets say the first 3 from a training tube (used in the same session!) are okay then there is a good chance that the rest is consistent as well without further testing. However you will notice with the first few hits whether the shuttle is too fast/slow and can easily adjust the shuttle.

    But within the given range for normal speed you will probably experience that the higher the league the faster the shuttles are.
     
    #6 96382, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
  7. ant01

    ant01 Regular Member

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    A few players at two of the clubs I attend in London regularly test the shuttle speeds, although sometimes the shuttles we use do seem quite fast anyway :rolleyes:
     
  8. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    Can you expand on that? Do you mean that the shuttles test correctly but land deeper within the correct range? Or that better players use faster shuttles so that they DO land deeper?
     
  9. 96382

    96382 Regular Member

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    Well the thing with the correct manual testing is a thing itself.
    In game they obey the rules - hit it with normal force (i would consider it to be around 80% of max hitting power if you are a decent player) and see where it lands. Better players often tend to use those shuttles that land in the back corner of the allowed range.

    With enough wrist power you can hit almost every shuttle over the whole court without having any comparable test result. Thats why the acceleration (both ways) and flight curve of the shuttle in the air is more important to me. With a little experience you will see whether the shuttle has your preferred characteristics. Then the exact point where it lands during your pregame tests is not that much important.
     
  10. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    All of the clubs which I have played at have been about right. Of all the teams in my local league, I would say speeds range from acceptably quick (i.e. just within the 'quick' mark) to unacceptably slow (i.e. short of the 'slow' mark).

    Typically, I've found the stronger the player, the slower they like their shuttles. Not least because this gives them an advantage against weaker players, but also because this makes the games last longer.

    When you have a range of abilities (which a club will always have) then I'd say roughly equal numbers should test too fast as those who test too slow. If you're one of the strongest players in the club but your test comes up short, then your club should discuss getting the next speed up and/or allowing feathers to be tipped inwards.

    Most extreme condition came during a tournament in Germany. Our opponent was adamant that the shuttles were far too fast, but the shuttle landed closer to the service line than the inner back line!
     
  11. diverdan

    diverdan Regular Member

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    Testing shuttle speed is subjective to the person hitting it. In theory the shuttle should be hit from the baseline and should fall within about 50cm of each side of the doubles service back line. In practice this depends on how well you strike the shuttle. I have recently spent the whole summer testing shuttles and shuttle speed from a range of manufacturers. I found that basically speeds vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. We currently use 77's. Our supplier is constantly saying that shuttle speed makes no difference but I disagree. I think he is just trying to max profit by getting everyone to buy the same speed which is 78. I have played matches at clubs where the shuttle falls well short of the service line and have complained. I think that people don't know how to test them properly and by what suppliers tell them. Paul Stewart has made a good video of how to test a shuttle.
     
    #11 diverdan, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  12. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    Absolutely! That is what I meant when I said "the test takes player ability into account" so folks with poor technique, or less strength, will hit the shuttle shorter - so they need a faster shuttle.
    And you are correct! Change your supplier?
    More people should complain about that!
    It's in the Laws! But I guess that most folks don't know the Laws, or decide to selectively cherry-pick those that lean in their direction.
     
  13. diverdan

    diverdan Regular Member

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    This subject has discussed but it is always good to bring it up.

    Here is the video by Paul Stewart on 'How to test a shuttle'
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AZbQBR90Yw

    Here is a post by Kwun

    given the climate and altitude of the court, there should only be one speed in which the shuttle travels. that speed should allow you to hit an underhand from baseline and lands on the doubles baseline on the other end.

    there are variations in speed of the shuttle because of the climate and temperature change, and not because of whether one is beginner or not.

    here is the official law:

    3. TESTING A SHUTTLE FOR SPEED

    3.1 To test a shuttle, use a full underhand stroke which makes contact with the shuttle over the back boundary line. The shuttle shall be hit at an upward angle and in a direction parallel to the side lines.

    3.2 A shuttle of correct speed will land not less than 530 mm and not more than 990 mm short of the other back boundary line

    Maybe people should bring this to light at their respective clubs? I also agree with Kwun on there only being one speed for the time and place.
     
    #13 diverdan, Oct 15, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  14. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    Much as I respect Kwun, I'm going to totally disagree with him on this. Well, debate is healthy…

    Think of the situation from the point of view of the average player in one particular club. Let's assume that they are not very strong players, or they're maybe non-developers just out for some fun and exercise. Sure, they will need to develop stroke production techniques and skills if they want to improve, and some will want to do that even in a recreational club, but they also need to develop tactical skills and knowledge.

    But if they can't hit a full singles serve to the back line, because they aren't strong enough, they won't be able to follow that up effectively. Against a player who can smash from mid-court (and some members of this club will be able to do that), they will be lost before they even start, and will avoid using the long singles serve (and only the top players in the world do that). Similarly with clears to the back line, in singles and in doubles.

    Weaker players NEED faster shuttles so that they can use the full length of the court. Stronger players NEED that too, so that they don't get constantly presented with easy pickings in mid-court, which is going to be very bad for their development.
     
  15. diverdan

    diverdan Regular Member

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    I see your point but there are flaws in your hypothesis. Once again there are a lot of variables to take in to consideration. Here are a couple of scenarios.

    What happens if one of the players tecnhnique is poor for underhand shots but great for overheads? What happens if there is a mix of ability on the court at one time?

    Obviously it is up to the individuals involved as to what speed to play with and 'recreational players' can do this but they will not develop the correct technique as the shuttle is doing most of the work for them. If you are 'league standard' then the shuttles should be the correct speed as stated by the BWF.


    .
     
    #15 diverdan, Oct 16, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  16. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    Another way to determine whether the shuttle is too fast/slow is to consider the balance of smash versus defense. If every smash is a winner, it would suggest that the shuttle is too fast. If no-one's smashes are effective, so that everyone starts clearing, the shuttle could be too slow.

    I accept that this method is equally as subjective and ill-defined as the official method, but I feel that it is more relevant to real situations.
     
  17. Ruffle

    Ruffle Regular Member

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    Surely the shuttles should be the correct speed no matter what standard the players play at.

    And my point is that the rule takes player strength into account. It says "a player shall" when testing the shuttle, not "a league standard player shall" and in fact an early version of the rule stated "a player of average strength shall" which I took to mean average within that badminton setting. Now it states ANY player, so that sets the required weight of shuttle depending on the testers' abilities.

    But I agree with Line & Length - the law is extremely subjective. It is common at the recreational level for a game to proceed involving players of very disparate standards, making shuttle speed selection impossible - and I deplore the loss of the word "average" in the law for that reason.

    And please don't brush off "recreational" players as being unworthy of consideration.
     
  18. diverdan

    diverdan Regular Member

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    Yes this is an interesting topic and I agree with line and length about how the club should be in agreement as to what shuttle speed to use. How you do this is up to you but it should follow the ruling set out by the BWF.

    As for my comment about 'recreational and league standard players' I meant that if the players are playing in a sanctioned match / league / competition which follows the BWF rules then the shuttle speed needs to be tested using this rule. If the players are experienced enough and can reasonably hit the shuttle then they will be able to judge whether a shuttle is fast or not. It really isn't that much of an exact science and the shuttle should fly an approximate distance. Recreational players can play with a squash ball if they want as it is between themselves however their ability will not improve as it should if the correct speed of shuttle is not used.

    Your idea would work if all players on the court were the same ability. I remember going to a club for the first time and using the shuttles that were provided by the club. I had to get used to them, adjust my technique and improve to match other players at the club. Imagine if I came along and said the shuttles were too slow because I couldn't clear to the back and all the other players could?

    Once you get to an average / intermediate standard then performing this test isn't that hard.

    May I add if you are going to start a debate then try not to be so sensitive with other peoples terminology etc. There is a wide range of users from all over the world with varying standards of English and ideas can get misunderstood. ;)
     

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