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Forearm after pronation

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by XKazeCloudX, Jul 3, 2007.

  1. XKazeCloudX

    XKazeCloudX Regular Member

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    Hi, I began to notice after some slow mo videos that I've seen. After the player hits the shuttle, the forearm continues to turn. While when I hit, I pronate, hit the birdie squarely and just do a follow through. Is there a difference in the two?

    Continuing to turn the racquet makes me feel like it will be harder to hit the birdie squarely.
     
  2. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    I'm not following you, exactly. Please clarify. Who are "the players"? Professionals?

    Please use the same language describing both examples except where there is change.
     
  3. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    Are you referring to follow through?
     
  4. XKazeCloudX

    XKazeCloudX Regular Member

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    Oh sure. Here is an example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfs16Jde3MU around 40-50 seconds. The man hits it and I can see that he continues to rotate his forearm.

    And when I follow through, it means after I hit, and my arms would start going to the bottom left. Does that make sense?


    Sorry this is what I mean Dink.

    You Swing, Pronate, and hit the birdie squarely. This is where the difference starts. The person on the video continues to turn his forearm. Where I just follow through to the bottom left. Or just left.
     
    #4 XKazeCloudX, Jul 3, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  5. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    I see a couple of reverse slice to induce drop shots.
     
  6. XKazeCloudX

    XKazeCloudX Regular Member

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    The overhead swing in ~40-50 seconds is what i'm talking about Pete
     
  7. checkthemc

    checkthemc Regular Member

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    I understand what hes saying. Its difference of follow through. The Professionals follow through with their arm still pronating while kaze just follows through with his arm.
     
  8. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    Yes, that's Lin Dan doing a reverse slice to induce a drop shot at 40 to 50 seconds into the video.

    The continuous follow through with the wrist is crucial in slicing the bird and appearing as a normal full-power shot.

     
  9. string_theory

    string_theory Regular Member

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    For a full smash hit square on, the forearm continues to pronate during the follow through. During the follow through, the arm first moves downwards and then sometimes relaxes to the left naturally (for right handers).

    The follow through can be different for a full smash, a half/wrist smash, a regular slice and reverse slice.

    Half/wrist smashes can be performed with a tap action without proper follow through as seen in Niels Kristian Kaldau's instructional video.

    Regular slice does not involve much pronation in the follow through (or, for that matter, before the contact either). In the slow motion video, there is some pronation, I think, because it is a fast drop.

    During the follow through of a reverse slice, the arm does not press downwards as much as it does during a square-on smash. So, the arm ends up pronated slightly higher than it does for a square-on smash.

    See them frame by frame
    Zhang Yawen's smash
    Chen Yu's (regular) slice
    Lin Dan's reverse slice

    These three strokes are discussed in this thread posts 48 - 84.
     
    #9 string_theory, Jul 3, 2007
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2007
  10. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    OK, I believe I understand. You are talking about two different shots.

    In the video, Lin Dan is hitting a reverse drop. You are talking about/doing a straight clear or smash.

    Lin Dan continues to rotate because that is what is required to spin the shuttle down and well as accelerate it over the net.

    With a straight clear or smash, there is no need to rotate the shuttle as it will slow the shuttle down.

    If you are going to reduce the travel of the shuttle, you need to spin it, hence the rotation by Lin Dan. If you are going for maximize power or distance, you need to hit the shuttle as squarely as possible with maximum force; your follow through will/should take your rotation to the left of your body.


     
  11. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    I guess Lin Dan would argue.. to the right of your body :D:cool:

    /Twobeer
     
  12. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    KICK! :p

    Of course I'm assuming for right handers to the left and lefthanders to the right.
     
  13. ViningWolff

    ViningWolff Regular Member

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    I know exactly what you are talking about. The simple answer is yes.

    I'd assumed that when I smahed my arm protanted , but did so coming across my body - the end up near my left side (say the left hip), but after wathing one of my macthes on tape, I was suprised to find out that 90% of the time my arms continued straight down, ( my right side - I'm rigth handed) even on my big smashes.
     
  14. XKazeCloudX

    XKazeCloudX Regular Member

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    Thanks Dink. So I see that some people like vining wolf, goes straight down after the hit. I did read somewhere if you lower your shoulder too much it would decrease power. What do you guys do?
     
  15. ViningWolff

    ViningWolff Regular Member

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    Depends on what you mean by lower. There is a certain amount of shoulder rotation, but with any proper hit ( unless a side arm drive) the shoulder would ( or should) remain up.

    If you look at a lot of the pro photos wehn they smashing you'll see that thier follow through is down rather than across.
     
  16. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    I believe this depends on their body position relative to the shuttle. If off balance, the follow through can be to the right side (assuming your righthanded) But if they are all set for a smash, it's normally always across (to the left).
     
  17. XKazeCloudX

    XKazeCloudX Regular Member

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    that is what i usually do. but like wolf said. i do see the pros go down instead of across =/. and it is easier for me to do across lol.
     
  18. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    When I do a forearm-dominant smash, my arm isn't swinging as quickly so the follow through is mostly seen as an eccentric pronation movement.

    With a more shoulder-dominant smash, the pronation still occurs but it is not as obvious because the location of my hand changes more quickly.
     
  19. Pete LSD

    Pete LSD Regular Member

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    Down and across in one very smooth and fast motion.

     
  20. ViningWolff

    ViningWolff Regular Member

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    But surpisingly when you look at the bigger hitters, that isn't always the case.

    I assumed that my biggest bombs ended up with my arm across my body but when Evylgrynn and I studied my one match, most ended up with my arm down my right side.

    Noted there are a few expetions - when i was jumping and going cross court ( from my right side to left side0 with my smash, yes I tended to end with my arm acoss my body, though I know it also has a lot to do with balance and direction of motion.

    I was surprised myself as I assumed the power shots would all have a swing arc across my body.

    Now unlike most players I have a large elbow rotation - when I'm hitting really hard my shoudler and elbow rotation meet with my final wrist snap.

    that's when Woodchuck/Mike Lam/Evylgryn get pegged. :cool:
     

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