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Good Player : Good Coach?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by wilfredlgf, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    The school was finally registered as one of the MSSS (Selangor School Athletics Council, whatever it is) member and we now have a task of producing a team capable of putting up a fight against other schools in Selangor.

    It sort of dawned to me that the sports master and the principal may actually ask me to be part of the badminton team as coach or tactician or involved indirectly in some where since that I am one of the few who know better (not necessarily much) about the finer points of badminton, thanks to BF... Yes, I know practice is different from theory but take into account that I am not your beginner Joe and had never played before. I have the theories in my mind from BF and my own reading, experimenting on some students and myself.

    I can only quote from football (soccer to you Yankees), of many failures of great players when they take on a club as the manager. One such example is John Barnes, ex-Liverpool winger. Excellent player, a legend in English football - took charge of Celtic and was sacked within months, very very bad performance.

    -

    I know the likes of Tang, Misbun etc were former great players are doing well with their charges now. So, I don't know too well about the aspect of coaching in badmnton.

    So, I was wondering while waiting for the traffic jam to clear up - whether it is necessary to be a good player to become a coach?

    Opinion?
     
    #1 wilfredlgf, Feb 25, 2004
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2004
  2. seven

    seven New Member

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    Very shortly : it's not necessary to be a good player, but it can help!

    Being (or having been) a good player helps gaining respect and confidence from your trainees... (which is an important issue)
     
  3. jayes

    jayes Regular Member

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    It will certainly help to be a good player to become a coach. A coach has to garner the respect of the students to motivate them to do "stuff" and I think a good player will have an easier time than someone who just knows the theory. Having said that, a coach who has no playing experience, with proper approach to his students, could also motivate the students to do things that he wants the students to accomplish. Depends on the creativity of the coach. A good player that has the experience playing in competitive badminton will know what is involves in competitions - not only the administrative but also the player's preparation (player's perspective). There are various level of competition - inter and intra clubs (including schools), cities, districts, states, national. So having the experience will certainly help the coach, but not necessary.

    Cheers.
     
  4. slyinottawa

    slyinottawa Regular Member

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    IMO, it isn't necessary but I believe it is difficult to coach players that compete at a much higher level than the coach. If the coach is a good player, he can provide tournament, winning and preparation coaching to the player while a "lesser" coach cannot provide that.
     
  5. spectra

    spectra Regular Member

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    As for my opinion , you have to be a good player to be a coach. Because sometimes you need to spare with them .and experience to help guide them .there's lots of responsibility to be a coach.

    you have to teach them diet, physically , mentally , skill wise and so on...you must also know how to arrange a suitable time table for them. when to do physical work , how many hours on the court and so on...

    if you can't be a coach, you can be their advisor...being an advisor don't need to have good skills on badminton , but knowledge on everything.
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    here is what i believe:

    - a good coach need to be a decent player.

    but more importantly, a good coach need to be a smart player. it is not neccessarily the case that the coach need to be better than the students. i don't think any of the national coaches can get close to their students. however, a good coach needs to have a solid understanding of techniques and tactics during the game. and those cannot be taught purely from books and the coach must know and understand them. and be smart enough to extend on them.

    - a good player doesn't always make a good coach.

    a good player can be really smart, but teaching is a very different game than playing. the ability to teach and explain things isn't in everybody.
     
  7. wwcbro

    wwcbro Regular Member

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    kwun

    ...I whole heartily agreed with you. Not an easy task to explain & teach...it will be exponentially more difficulty if you (the coach) is not a decent player!
     
  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yeah. here is the summary of the possibilities:

    1. bad player, bad coach - most likely
    2. bad player, good coach - very unlikely
    3. decent player, bad coach - bad teacher
    4. decent player, good coach - possible, need good teaching skills

    of course, one need to scale according to the skill level. a decent for intermediate level coach is a bad player for professional level.

    i probably fall into category 3. somehow my student prefers to listen to other ppl even though i said the same exact thing. annoys the heck out of me when she comes back telling me, "you know, blah blah blah tells me to do it, and it makes a lot of sense," my reaction would be, "but i told you exactly that yesterday..."
     
  9. JChen99

    JChen99 Regular Member

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    lol Kwun, maybe it's because you and your student know each other too well (too close maybe?). Same thing when I'm trying to teach my sister, she just ignores me and later on comes back with what her friends tell her to do.

    It's hard to coach and not get frustrated when your student knows how to push your buttons :p
     
  10. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    Based on my assesment on how some of the potential school athletes play, I can safely say that some are about the same level as I am but without the technical refinement that is required to do proper shots.

    They can hit the shuttles well, getting it over the net, but they don't understand why you need to keep your shoulders up, why you need to rotate your body, why you need to try to hit the shuttle high, or why you need to keep your racquet high often in anticipating your opponents.

    You can see me do this 'coaching' during our games together, with me shouting instructions to the doubles to move and cover the court, split or move closer to the net etc.

    I guess one important ingredient is the ability to see a weakness or strength and to work on it. Basically, I could only see the fundamental or basic errors such as formation, body posture and preparation etc, but no more when it comes to identifying why their net shots don't work for example.

    Still, if need to, I'll try my best. ;)
     
  11. bluejeff

    bluejeff Regular Member

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    Well, most of coaches I have seen "were" good players. The reason they become coaches are usually because of the injury or lack of money to continue. ( I have seen some young coaches :))

    And Yes, good coaches usually come from good players (when they were young :p)
     
  12. Californian

    Californian Regular Member

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    If you look at sports in general, you'll find that the greatest coaches were only average players or even less. I think this happens because the great players have a lot of natural talent--things come much easier to them. Meanwhile, the athletes who lack this natural ability have to study the game much more and work much harder to achieve whatever they can, doing their best to make up for that lack of natural talent. Since they also often must sit and watch while the better players get to participate, they become keen observers of things missed by those actually playing. Consequently, they learn the fine points of technique, execution, training, and strategy. They know not only what works, but also WHY it works, whereas the great athletes just go out and do it without understanding so much how or why. Also, because of how they had to learn the sport, they have more patience, which a good coach needs.
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Great point there Californian.

    The most talented may have the skills come so easily, it's difficult for them to appreciate how hard it is for the rest of the population. Then, they may not have considered in depth a problem that faces a student or the different approaches that a student may need to learn.

    Having said that, IMHO, one would still need to be a pretty good player to be a good coach as a fundamental understanding of basic techniques is essential. If the coach had good basic skills, then the coach should be automatically regarded as a good player...
     
  14. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    Good player doesnt mean he/she is a good coach.. but with certain experience about the game and knowledge can make a person a good coach.. its all about passion and attitude and share the game.
     
  15. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    I'd say that experience is the key, especially in playing. This is especially true, especially when the playing field is more or less the same. One with the better skills will often face a stiff challenge from the experienced (assuming the playing field is about even) because the latter knows how to counter the skilled shots and deceptions of the former.

    Thus, a good coach should be a decent player, with lots of playing experience as what that is being imparted into the students will be the experience. Through experience also one can help identify mistakes and problems.
     
  16. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    All right, MSSS confirmed and accepted, we have a tournament in three weeks. THREE WEEKS!

    The sportsmaster met me yesterday for an after hour chat and I was told that he will be informing the principal that he wants me to be one of the people in charge of selection, and he is keen to send us to attend the course which will be conducted by the sports' council of the district (or is it state?) on matters regarding coaching and tournament organization.

    All that subject to the approval of the boss of course, after all, I'm a full-time IT dude...

    If all goes as planned, you'll see a Misbun or Yap clone sitting on a chair looking intently at people playing, taking down notes and whispering a thing or two to the person besides him... but with more hair! :)

    And if I do feel crazy enough, I may just do a journal-thread here on BF on a daily or weekly basis... "Trials and Errors of the Rookie Rookie Coach". ;)
     
    #16 wilfredlgf, Mar 3, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2004
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    A coach should also have had exposure to tournaments. Tournament play is a different feeling to just playing games socially. The pressures are different. The agonies of losing are just....:(

    That's part of the overall experience that wilfredgf mentioned two posts up.
     
  18. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    I just got to know from the sportsmaster that the Petaling District of Selangor, in which the school is in, were MSSS State Level Champions of 2003.

    :eek: :eek: ;) :eek:

    Bring on the lions!
    Let the horses come!
     
  19. TheGr8One

    TheGr8One Regular Member

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    This is so similar to the teaching profession. A person may be a good student but not a good teacher. But a bad student may not necessarily be a bad teacher either. The concern is how well does the teacher know the subject being taught, not how he/she does at university.

    Good students will be smarter, but that is not all to teaching. Likewise, a person who has a lot of badminton knowledge without playing isn't "completely" qualified. I would say that to teach badminton well, the candidate should have both knowledge and be able to play well on the court to show that they're competent.
     
  20. cheekygen

    cheekygen Regular Member

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    hello........wilfredlgf

    In my opinion , there are different types of coaches in different levels... eg school level , state level , and national level . For school level , usually the requirement for the coach is not so high which means any teacher who know much about badminton can handle the students..... but if state level coach face a more challenging and pressure position where their responsibility is to prepare the players to National level so they need to have the experience as a decent player to guide those players with the skills and technique . Needless to say, the requirement to become a national coach is at least represent country before unless you have the experience of badminton coaching for many years and produces several top players before .........

    i personally agree with this two posts below.........

    "Being (or having been) a good player helps gaining respect and confidence from your trainees... (which is an important issue)"

    "Good player doesnt mean he/she is a good coach.. but with certain experience about the game and knowledge can make a person a good coach.. its all about passion and attitude and share the game."


    Many people thought that a coach's responsible is to train and produce a champion..
    In a way , yeah but i think a coach is more than that........ For me , a coach is someone who not only guide someone to be a good badminton player but also as a person as well ; the right attitude and behavior inside and outside the court . A coach is someone who player can talk to and understand how they feel ,a coach will will be there for them when i lost and lend them a shoulder to cry on , and share the joy when they lifted the throphy........ A coach is like a mentor , a teacher , a friend ; someone the players will always respect even not every player turn out to be top player .

    A coach-player relationship require communication and a good coach know his student's temperament and attitude , and able to approach them , motivate them to train . You must know there will be pressure in coaching in school because you probably have certain target and expectation for the team but what is the objective do you have in eccepting this role? To train a school team champion ? To have a team of players with the never-say-die attitude ? Are you willing to be a role model for them? You have to determine what the best you can do in this school level to help the players to develop their interest in badminton because that is the thing could bring them to next level . You only have three weeks to train your students , what can you do to help this student to be in better condition? Mentally and physically ? Try to be fair to every player because any unfairness will makes the players against each other and it will effect the team spirit........ i would say , in any sport , the most valuable thing a champion possess is the spirit...... fighting spirit, team spirit ..... will always seperate the loser and the winner .

    Many top coaches in our country neglected the importance of emotional needs of the players and lack of communication between a coach and a player . When a player play well , everyone including the coach will fight for the credit of the results but when the player unable to perform , he or she will be left behind at the shadow of other players. Of course , coaches have a very heavy responsibility because it is their career and job which nation will question about but at the end , the selfishness, wanting to keep the good paid job , reputation , causing more player's future. Do they even care how the player's attitude or behavior ? Certainly not because no matter how u behave as long as u win , that's fine..... this is their principle . Young players who selected for the national junior squad from other states were staying away from their home to pursue their dream to represent country one day..... and the coach is their second parent or guardian to make sure they have been properly taught . What if the coach did not realize their role as a guardian ? Perhaps , you could figure out what will happen to them..... school drop out , disco , smoking , drinking, gambling , etc ... all this can't be bothered by coaches because they see it as not their responsibility . It is the same situation today where students spent most of their time in school facing teachers more than their parents , so teacher play an important role for the students's development as well.......

    In conclusion , anyone can be a badminton coach whether they are good player or not but the important thing is how to be a respectable one? For me , a successful coach is not someone who only produces champions inside the court but also champion outside the court as a person. What is the use to produce a world class player who did not have the right attitude and behavior even as a person?
     

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