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Good way of moving/stroke to pressure opponent who plays attacking clears

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by TrueBlue, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    i know there are already a few threads about this topic.

    But i have a special concern: If i play against a player who sets up his game with fast attacking clears to the corners i just cannot deal with it. I don´t get it. I practice footwork like hell until my hole upper legs burn like hell.

    I normaly use kinda standard footwork to go back from the middle (central) position to the rear corners: two hops (with both legs) to my forehand corner. If i have time enough (often i kinda come from the middle jumping side into the fast coming shuttle and i am only able to hit a late clear or a must slice-since i come sideways- then) i do a scissors, otherwise i just jump with my racket foot to the back (lee chong wei style) and try to hit a clear or drop (usually down the ,forehand, line).

    This footwork works for high clears very well. I get behind the shuttle. But for this flat clears i kinda move into the flight path of the shuttle, then i'm under the stuttle for my last step and when i past the shuttle its already quite near me with high speed and flat above my head.

    I feel as if my usual swing for clear is not good enough for this task. I know there is a clear with a smaller preparing phase (more like just take your racket elbow back and then pronate-/wistclear - so it should be possible to hit attacking clear back).

    But usually i just come flying jumping behind the ball and have no time to react pooper.

    My questions:
    Is it i' standing to far front? (if i practise footwork drills -all from my base, although i know i should ajust my base to right and left and even to front and back a little according to the shots i imagine to play- i really get exhausted in games since i try to run to base after every shot)?

    Is it not enough body rotation to get behind the shots and back to base?

    Should i act like this: Attacking clear to my backhand rearcourt: left foot little back, then right foot back out to near backhand corner - swissors jump-hit)?
    instead of my two hop swissors jump footwork?

    My aim is to stay in control of the rallies although the other side only acts with attacking clears waiting for the weak net replay or mixes his style with drop.
    I am pretty much the control player. I love to get high clears and slow drops since if i get well to the shots i can do almost everything which means for me play to every spot / all for corners or myself attackclear....

    Please help me since i get beaten up regularly by this playrs ;)

    - I know there is also the china jump to the side to get to flat atcking clears. But usually i get exhausted from this jumping (since my base i to much middle and if i jump side i have to jump quite high to get shuttle?) and can only block clear the suttle down the line from this jump.

    :p thanks for reading this:) by the way i play for seven years, one year with not so professionel coaching. And I
    try to learn from teaching videos and profesionell players videos and sometimes playing with quite better players since there is no real good trainer round the next 70 km.
     
    #1 TrueBlue, Feb 24, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  2. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Sounds like you need to move your base alittle bit further up to the baseline cuz it's easier to move forward to retrieve a drop than back up for a fast clear which you have no way of knowing if it's out except through sheer experience. Also, I recall some of our BF'ers advise walking back to the base rather than rushing back. This would allow you to respond better to your opponent's return than simply blindly rushing back to base and guess where the guy's going to hit next at the last few seconds. In addition, the singles' base is fluid depending on game situation rather than statically based in the middle of the court. Stay slightly on side with the straight shot while still being around the middle court area.

    Playing singles is physically demanding so energy conservation and efficiency is important. Jumping around would compromise your recovery as well as your accuracy. Unless you're willing to condition yourself to playing this highly aggressive style throughout the game, I would recommend keeping jumping movements to doubles as one can commit more to one shot in doubles than in singles.
     
    #2 cappy75, Feb 24, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2006
  3. LongReach

    LongReach Regular Member

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    Just curious:confused:



    TRUEBLUE are you tall?.......over 6 foot?
     
  4. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    I'm 5.9 foot (1.80 m).
    Thanks so much cappy:p .

    I've learned:
    -Walk back to base: Yes. Thats it. Not rushing. I do it in practise: Swissors jump, landing racket foot front (right one) - step left, step right, maybe jump to be in middle of the court and immediately push to any direction when landing from jump.
    But i think if i see i'll get a rearcourt (example: attacking clear) shot from opponent i don't have to do the last jump since it gets me to far front and is too energy demanding.
    In game i often do pushing movements with both legs after a rearcourt stroke to get to the middle (energy demanding). Don't know why i don't do the walking i often practise.
    -not jumping around: Yes. I'm a jumper. Maybe i watched to many xia xuanze videos (of course he doesn't jump stupidly like me, it's just my impression of powerfull jumps/leaps i get from watching him).
    I'm better in doubles. All the people playing many attacking clears i talked about i can beat in doubles. Position of base no problem in doubles??
    -With my two hop back movements i use too much energy. Maybe mix with chasse steps or chasse steps ending with a lunge to the back/out.
    I always end up trying to play like Xia Xuanze and get behind each shuttle or jump behind the shuttle which i have not the right physics/training status for.
    Even in doubles i'm pretty done after two-three sets.
    I also think since i play an at-700 racket i must attack everything ;)
    -Aggressive style: I try to play kind of a control game by playing the four corners. But i can't rely on this style if opponent starts playing flat clears to me since i can't play with enough precision when shuttle comes so far and not high enough to get good angles. What to do?

    It's maybe cause of base to much middle instead of side+too much front+too fast/wrong walking/rushing back to base.
    But maybe it's grip? Many things start by wrong grip i think. i use a 10 degrees adjusted nutral grip for overhead clears most of the time. (If anyone knows lee jae bok's recommention for smash grip, but i have my thumb on the side.) Is this what you call a forehand overhead grip?
    I'll try out cappy's recommendations tonight:eek:
     
  5. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    Today everything was much better: I'm not exhausted after badminton just nice sleepy. thanks cappy.
     
  6. LongReach

    LongReach Regular Member

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  7. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Glad things are working out for you. Soon you'll get use to your opponent's pacing and you'll be the one doing the punishing;).

    I would recommend you guys to check out the BadmintonCentral Technique Corner as it's filled with many useful articles posted by members past and present. What I suggested were from some of them:).
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    1) get a video of Puella Gopichand. He has to play a lot out of the rear corners and demonstares the shot well.

    2)
    If it you feel you cannot do this well, you have to 'plant' your racquet foot behind you. If you need to point the toe outwards - if the shuttle is going more past you, so that you would strike teh shuttle even lower, then the foot needs to be placed behind you with the toe rotating even more. (When Peter Gade gets a rear court forehand shot, that he needs to strike from the level of the net, his toe is almost pointing to wards the rear of the court.

    3)
    Try not being directly underneath the shuttle. Need to adjust your footwork so that the shuttle is to the side of your body.

    4) The preparation of the stroke is different. Very difficult for me to describe. If we got time, usually, we would hold the racquet up in the air and wait for the shuttle to come down. Here, there is not enough time for that.

    5) Placement of shuttle. When playing a forecourt reply, play the shuttle a little past the service line of the opponent. Why? Because it's more difficult for the opponent to play a good netshot when striking the shuttle 1.5 to 2 metres away from the net.
    If you let a fast player play netshots close to the net, he can play a good one and you put yourself under a lot of pressure.
    Try playing this shot slow and fast and see the difference in the opponents play.

    6) as cappy said, if you play a forecourt shot, don't rush back to the middle. Take 1 to 1.5 steps back to the centre. Then you know the opponent will be more likely to play to the front only 2 corners. Rush back, and the opponent has options to play to 4 corners - which puts you under pressure.

    7) if you play a clear, then walk back to the centre line of the court. You might want to put your base slightly further back to make him play even better attack clears. So when he chooses to play this shot, he will need to raise the quality i.e. lower margin of error - mistakes may come from this giving you the points.
    You may say this leaves the front open, but you can anticipate dropshots better.
     
  9. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    Thank you guys for taking you the time to read and reply.

    LongReach, you mean it doesn't matter the height of a player who gets attacked by flat clears? I think there i a certain advantage for those players to block the shot without jumping. I sometimes experienced players just straighten their raquet arm (they had a very deep base so they were fast behind shuttle with mostly only sideways movement) - they were tall (over 1,80m i think). The shuttle fell behind the net with a steep angle. I couldn't return it:crying: .

    Cappy, i did a search and read a lot of articles. My problem is sometimes i don't know which aspect fits my problem. I mean maybe one player has problem with attacking clear cause he has wrong stroke action with say too big movement to hit fast coming shuttle in front. But i think you're right in general. There is really much quality information in this section. I think it's the same problem as trying to learn a technique by yourself: You just don't get the one aspect that you do wrong while an experienced trainer could tell yyou after one minute watching maybe. but that doesen't mean it's not useful to read the technique section-it helped me a lot.

    Cheung, to 1): I'm just trying to get some demonstration from gopichand. I'm also interested in why he has to play so much from rearcourt corners. Maybe i'll find out by watching and can take advantage for my own game/problem.:D

    to 2): I'll try this today: Maybe it's easier to hit the shuttle because you can take it more above you (not so much sideways) which could make it easier to control the shutttle.
    Maybe i should watch peter gade demonstrating this because i get a picture in my head which could be wrong [very low positioning, head facing to wall behind his own court, not to opponent, raquet arm straightend to same direction with slightly bend elbow, plaing a low straight down the line drop reply which lands a little bit behind the net (as you suggest in 5)].

    to 3): ah, i see. side of my body. so i must correct my picture of gade in this point:) .

    to 4): sounds good. no need for the early preparation i´m always told (at least in this case):D .

    to 5): That's what i often do: I'm always suprised (especially when we play half-court "Drop-Net Drop-High clear-Drop-Net Drop..." that opponent can reply whith such short and well placed net drops. Then i usually try to play even closer to the net and try to play very steep behind the net to make him lift the shuttle more from the ground. That mostly doesn't work or i'll get a hairpin shot back which makes me run like hell and i only can lift the shuttle to the rearcourt because of the steep angle.
    I'll try out the different pace drops today (landing 1.5-2m behind the net). You see, normaly i always play slow drops but i want to mix my game more and play a faster and more unexpected game-this could help me on this.

    to 6): will try this out. sounds good to animate the opponent to play shots you already expect. could make me control the game in my favoure. Maybe i should work on my net replies to effeciently deal with opponents net replies which should happen more often then. Could even work other way round if i want to get the lift to my rear court:cool: .

    to 7) walk back to base: together with haveing my base (in the case of getting attacked a lot by high clears, but i think also in general in singles-in doubles the positioning in the middle of the court works very well when my partner serves; i can put lots of pressure on opponents when they reply to rear court whith service return since i can jump up or leap-) one step back the middle of the court (of course not after i, lets say, played a net shot) is for me the key factor to play a relaxed less strainous game:p .

    base more in back:
    more time to attack flat clears because shuttle travels longer/i can anticipate better. But why can i anticipate dropshots better? I mean not that i think i'll get problems with dropshots cause i have the length of my raquet arm and raquet, but the time a dropshot travels is same when i'm in middle of the court or if i'm one step behind middle (of course adjusted to the sides eventually), no?:eek:
    he needs to play more quality shots: Yes, i think so: Because i can reply with more quality shots because of more time for myself to set up the strokes.

    Thank you Cheung for your tips, i'll try out now. My post became a bit long i think:rolleyes: .
     
    #9 TrueBlue, Feb 25, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  10. LongReach

    LongReach Regular Member

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  11. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    Now i understand. You mean if you as a tall player want to hit ball high you must move faster than smaller player. Yes, maybe i agree. I saw doubles of eriksen/lundgard who got caught a few times this way.

    Maybe sometimes a footwork pattern with a lunge to the back and kind of a defensive drop (like Cheung suggested, 1.5-2m more inside the opponents court) or clear or half-smash could help instead of trying to get behind the shuttle and attack. But of couse a good fast way of moving could help together with the right base position to attack those shuttles at least some times. That's what i think:confused: .
     
  12. LongReach

    LongReach Regular Member

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    Yeah dude exactly:) It was hard for me to explain but i am glad you understand why I asked you height........being tall doesn't give you an advantage at everthing.

    Good thread to start Mate! I too have learned alot from this aswell as you.
    Thanks to all the Guys who gave alot of good hints and techniques in this thread(cheung & cappy)........this is the best thread I have participated in! For sure!:D

    Now............all those opponents with their naughty fast attacking clears, I am now going to make your eyes go like this---->:eek: next time you try that tactic on me!:) muahahahaha!
    cheers Guys!
     
    #12 LongReach, Feb 25, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2006
  13. TrueBlue

    TrueBlue Regular Member

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    I must admit i almost hoped that Cheung would give me some hints, because i read some excellent threads started by him about badminton techniques. It is almost as if i have some trainers here in Badmintoncentral forum :) .
    But also the hints of cappy helped me very much, especially about walking to base and right base position after clearing which were the main problems of me in my opinion.

    I think there are some advantages and disadvantages about being very high. The German champion is also high (looks like more than 1,90m) and i think he take advantage of this in some situations, for example he doesen't have to travel so far if he wants to play a net shot coming from the rear court. That's what i felt when i saw him live.

    I'm glad you like this thread. I thought many people would be kind of bored because i celebrate my problems in such a long text with the main intention to become a better player myself ;) .
    By the way, i understand your nick now.
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Let's say you move your base back a little bit when playing against a player who plays attacking clears.

    1) sometimes you can cut off the clear. Some options are:
    - clip the shuttle down like a half smash with a very quick action. Hafiz is good at this. This changes the pace of the shuttle so the opponent has to suddenly stoop down.
    - do a drop shot but play it past the service line. It must not be the slow type. Slow ones allow the opponent to get nearer to the net.

    2) by standing back, you leave the forecourt more open. But, now you are not so scared of the aatck clear. So, you can crouch down with your weight a little more forward. This will help your acceleration forward if you do have to run for a drop shot. The increase in acceleration can actually compensate for the increased distance you have to cover to get to the forecourt.

    OK, so none of these are sure ways to win a point. But these shots make it difficult for the opponent to keep attacking you. If you can prolong the rally by playing some high quality 'neutral' shots, the opponent may start to lose beleif in his attacking play and errors start occurring.

    'Neutral' shots mean shots which are not winners but the receiving player has to be very careful about what shot he decides to play from this.
     

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