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Hockey Parents

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by evylgrynn, May 16, 2004.

  1. evylgrynn

    evylgrynn Regular Member

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    I think most Canadians on this board will understand what this means... ;)

    My friend was the drawmaster at the zone tryouts for the Alberta Summer Games on the weekend, and he ran into some conflict with the parents of two of the players, has anyone seen anything like this?

    The tryouts were run in 2 divisions, Under 19 and Under 16, each with a round robin format with 2 pools, and crossover semifinals (Pool A winner plays Pool B 2nd place, etc)

    During the tournament two players whose game was called went to the wrong court (don't ask me how, the courts were numbered clearly). One kid was under 16 division, the other was under 19. They played a match, one game to 21, the under 16 kid won the game. After the game, the mistake was found and since it was a round robin, it wasnt too bad of a mix up the game was just not counted. The under 16 kid eventually finished 3rd in his division, meaning he was the first alternate to go to the Summer Games (top two were on the team)

    After this, the mother of the kid who finished 3rd went up to my friend and said she was filing a complaint to Badminton Alberta against him because her son played one more game than the top two players, and that's why he didnt make it to the team. She also threatened to appeal the results. After some discussion, they agreed to play another game with that kid, and the kid who finished second, who had already beaten this kid pretty easily. Sure enough, the one who originally finished second was so upset by having to play again (he had already showered and gotten dressed) that he didnt try and lost 21-0. Now, the father of the kid who lost showed up and is threatening to file an appeal because his kid had to play again. This situation is still being worked out!!

    Has anyone seen a situation like this? I could not find any specific rules that pertain to this situation, I would think since it was a round robin, the kid playing an extra match was not a big deal, and if that kid cannot play one extra game to 21, how much good is he going to be in a tournament?

    Sorry for the long post, but it was a complicated situation and I was curious as to what everyone else thought. I have never seen something like this happen where parents complain like this in badminton!!
    Thanks
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Who made the mistake in the first place?

    The number of the court was clearly called out. So, which player played on the wrong court?
     
  3. TTT

    TTT Regular Member

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    I think the kid who finished third shouldn't be allowed to play another game because it was him/her that screwed up and went to the wrong court. (or was it the U19 kid that went to the wrong court??)

    But since both sides agreed, this means that the kid who finished second doesn't really have a case to complaint.

    btw...the kid who finished second already played him, I don't understand why he should play him again...

    Haven't seen situations like these before....it's because most, if not all, of the tournaments I watched have a tight time constraints that doesn't permit extra games.
     
  4. shewlett

    shewlett Regular Member

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    IMHO, youth sports are supposed to be fun for the youths involved and the emphasis should not be on winning at all costs. The #2 kid never should have consented to playing the #3 kid again. Unfortunately, its the parents who really screw things up usually in organized children's sports.

    Here in Massachusetts a few years ago we had a hockey dad who killed a referee by slamming his head into the concrete floor repeatedly. Every year here there are problems with parents fighting at youth sporting events and it's not just confined to hockey.
     
  5. evylgrynn

    evylgrynn Regular Member

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    actually, the kid who finished second did not agree, it was the guy running the tournament that proposed this, and he did not give the kid a choice in the matter, he just told him he has to play again.
    personally, I would have told the mother too bad, it was her son's fault for going onto the wrong court in the first place, if this had been a waterfall draw, is that kid going to complain because the 1st seed gets a bye, and has to play less matches than him?
    I think everything that could go wrong went wrong in this case, the one who originally finished second was a much better player and could have beaten him easily, but he decided to pout and not even swing at the bird! I dont know whats going to happen now, but I agree that this is supposed to be for fun, and what kind of lesson do the kids learn? If you dont win fairly, whining and complaining can get you there anyway? Doesnt seem right to me
     
  6. lalanthier

    lalanthier Regular Member

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    I think both cases are disgusting.

    It's the kid's fault for goign to take a shower right away and then agreeing to play, and then not trying at all only to complain after because he CHOSE not to bother to play.

    by the way....bertuzzi isn't on team canada!!!! :eek:
     
  7. Hugo

    Hugo Regular Member

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    I think it's the first kid's fault for not going to the proper court even though they were marked clearly. At zones here, if one does not appear on proper court within 5 minutes of his/her name being called, it's an automatic default loss.

    BTW, which zones was this played at?
     
  8. badrad

    badrad Regular Member

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    this is a good example of the tournament organizers and officials not standing their ground. the rules and policies for the particular tournament should have been written or at least established clearly prior to the start of the tournament.

    if i had been running the tournament, i'd get the facts cleared up as to what caused the wrong match to occur, take a stand that regardless of whether extra game/match was played it would not change the previous outcome, then i would politely tell the parent to shut the **** up and get on with the next phase to team preparation.
     
  9. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    If the court # is clearly marked, then it's the 1st kid's fault for participating in the wrong match.

    For b***s**** reasons like "oh, I played 1 more game", "damn, my draw is hard", "man, his opponent is weak", "what? he got a walkover in previous round?", can only draw laugh. If u r the winner, play the game, let the racket and skill do the talk. If just a whinner, well, keep talking, and see if the big mouth can bring out a true champ or not.
     
  10. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I don't quite understand.

    1. Why a player can't take a shower right after the tourny is over (well, suppose to be over). Don't tell me there's a rule that all players have to be in sweat shirts for certain # of hrs after a tourny, just in case someone use b.s. reasons for a "re-match".

    2. I think it's the host ask him to play, but not the kid choose to do so.

    3. If I don't like to do certain things, but forced to participate, not bother to even try might be the only "voice" I can raise up under certain situation.
     
  11. FEND.

    FEND. Regular Member

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    I'd have to agree with LB over there. Who asked the kid to go to the wrong court, and I am gonna question the kid and his mom. Why make such a big fuss? Aren't they there to play badminton? and not to fire off the mouth at 200 words a minute?

    Gosh man, I'd be so EMBARRASSED if I had a mother like that.
     
  12. shewlett

    shewlett Regular Member

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    evylgrynn, you are right ... it is a mess. The #2 kid was in the wrong not to try and win if he consented to the match (I still think he should have just refused and walked away since apparently the outcome is going to be appealed anyways). However, the #3 kid was clearly in the wrong if he went to the wrong court so he should have forfeited. I agree with badrad's analysis of what the tournament director(s) should have done to analyze the situation. These kids may be learning how to play badminton but are obviously not getting aquainted with the concept of good sportsmanship as well, again the parents' fault IMHO.
     
    #12 shewlett, May 18, 2004
    Last edited: May 18, 2004
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    In a way, the parents are not at fault for trying to protect their interests.

    But I do feel the tournament organisers were not being firm enough. Any player going to the wrong court gets a forfeit or a result that is not counted. This happens all the way up to International level.

    Although the tournament organisers thought what they were doing was fair, they made the wrong judgement.

    Hope they learn for the next time.
     
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    So true, so true
     
  15. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    We still have the problem, which is refusing to go away. Now how do we solve the problem? This may turn out to be a very good case study for problem solving.
     
  16. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I agree with badrad, as the officers should stand for their own rulez, no matter that will piss off certain participants or not. There's no perfect solution in any situation, there are always ppl think "that's not fair for me!", especially when they are losing. If we have to satisfied everyone, and change the rulez every time when someone is yelling, well, there's no way to get anything done.

    When i was in college, I participated in a local tourny. Obviously, they tried to rank the players in the draw. There are tons of participants are worse than me, but somehow, I had to play against the runner up in the 1st round! Why? Well, they simply did not look for any reference, but just throw in my name by look (what can this fat fella do....) Of course, I know I will be eliminated in the earlier rounds anyway, but still, I think I can come up with a even better argument than the kid's mom, as they simply did not follow the rulez @ the 1st place. But I did not ask for any rematch, or appeal, or refund, etc. I know I am not the champ, and I don't want to waste all my energy just to argue. I would rather sit down, enjoy watching better players playing, share good time with my friends, and carefully think about how to do better next yr. ;)
     
  17. badrad

    badrad Regular Member

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    you have a very simple solution here.

    stating that both players have played and have each won one game against the other (albeit the second one was basic walkover), you can declare that a decision is a tie and must have a rematch - make it best of 3, to decide once and for all the second place player to occur.

    Declare a time and place, and have a duel. If the player who won the first time is truly better, then he should be able to repeat his win.

    The nice thing about being a tournament director, you should have the flexibility to make these decisions to clarify any problems.

    Another suggestion is to communicate with Alberta Badminton, and confer with them if this is suitable. They would likely be aware of the problem, but at least if there are any further conflicts, they will know the background and some of the remedies already applied.

    man, i'd love to be in your shoes right now... nothing more fun than beating up a bunch of parents!
    :D :D
     
  18. evylgrynn

    evylgrynn Regular Member

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    Haha, I'm sure everyone would love to smack those parents around!!
    I'm not sure what's going to happen, as of now the kid who originally finished second (lets call him Billy-not his real name) says he is not interested in a rematch, the only way he will go is if he is reinstated by the organizers.

    Also, I found out a different version of the story now, I think this one is closer to what happened, apparently the other kid (call him Bobby) was put into the U18 draw accidently, he went and played the match they called him for. He actually knew the kid he played against, he knew the other guy was U19, but he played the match anyway, and only brought it up after the match. So the organizer has made a mistake by putting him in the wrong draw. The mistake was corrected (so they thought) and he played out the rest of his matches, finishing third. This was when the mother started complaining that playing the extra match affected ONLY the 2 matches he lost, he did quite well in the round robin part (3-1 in matches) so obviously (to me) he was not that exhausted by the one extra match.
    So, the organizer made a mistake, but in my opinion it did not affect the outcome of the placings, I would have said sorry about the mistake, but it was one game and it did not affect anything, so get bent!!!
    I think the organizer was trying to appease the mother, but this was not fair to Billy, now who goes to the Games? If I was the coach, I dont know if I would want either one on my team, but one of them has to go. I will keep you posted on the outcome of this fiasco
     
  19. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    1. Bobby (3rd place) had more than 1 chances to raise his voice before the tourny was over. He could question about the draw, as he was listed in U19, and he should surely ask when he saw his opponent (the guy he knew), etc. Why not complain when he 1st found out but at the very end, when he actually lost the 1st 2 spot? Simple, he lost!!! :mad: I doubt his mom will hyped up, if he won 1st or 2nd place.

    2. Yeah, he played 1 more game. Then? What about other ppl who finished with lower ranking complaining about facing tougher opponents (even round robin, u don;'t want to face skillful players when they were fresh), what about if they complain certain opponents get more rest than them (as u have to wait for the next opponent to finish his match), what about if they question someone did not play "hard enough" (sounds fimilar???)

    3. Play 1 extra game might not be a bad thing in some situation, as he got extra time for warm up. Many tournies have tight schedule, and only gave 3-5 min for warm up. Bobby played a match and won, which could surely hyped him up in some sense. What about other ppl complain, why I can't play longer to get fully warmed up???
     
  20. wood_22_chuck

    wood_22_chuck Regular Member

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    Sour grapes ... Lazybuddy, you summed it up. Why complain AFTER?! This situation has veered away from badminton skill, to a parent exploiting weak-willed organizers. Politics, instead of game.

    Sounds to me the final standings reflected a fair assessment of skill level.

    -dave
     
    #20 wood_22_chuck, May 18, 2004
    Last edited: May 18, 2004

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