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How do you become crappier from playing games?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Birdy, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Birdy

    Birdy Regular Member

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    It's been almost 9 weeks since I started taking lessons and badminton seriously.

    I have been told by some people that I shouldn't play games because it actually makes you suckier.

    For example, when you play games, you don't really focus on how you hit and you just want to win the point or you just reinforce poor habits. I don't know how true this is though, because on the other side, some people said I should play games to apply what I learn in lessons and drills.

    They said games are more important than doing drills or lessons because that's where you really learn how to play.

    Which is true?

    My brother who plays for a college team is suggesting I stop playing games once and for all and focus mainly on drills and lessons for 3-4 months straight before moving to games, but some other players who play really well said I should play games.

    I don't know which is true.. Any advice or insights would be appreciated.
     
  2. Exert

    Exert Regular Member

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    I think I agree with your brother, but you should still always try to apply what you learned in lessons from your coach. But your priority should be drills and practices first because what you stated above is correct. You don't really focus on what you're doing in games you just want to win and yeah. My foot work was terrible and I've been doing a lot of drills with foot work without shuttles. After I was ready I started with shuttles then played games to break my habit. Just play games in incorrect in my perspective. I think you need to incorporate both but focus on drills and lessons first it will be better trust me. It's so much more efficient to get things right now then later. As your habit builds it gets harder too. Happy new year :)
     
  3. Nict_26

    Nict_26 Regular Member

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    it depends on your objective when you set out to play games.
    what will be your focus when you play games..
    eg, dropshots, clear, punch, net and smash etc.

    you can still go for games but have to be mindful in your shots selection.

    it is thru games you gain experience.
     
  4. Exert

    Exert Regular Member

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    Punch? LOL
     
  5. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

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    punch, aka a drive
    I am not sure about college team, but usually after a practice we need to play to relieve some stress from the practice.
    I mean, what is the point of practicing without trying it first hand on the game?

    but of course you need to think that the game is not about winning. it is about trial and error. consciously think about what you learn in the practice and apply it to your game. for example if you are practicing a drop, do a drop that is disguised as a smash. if you are practicing footwork, then try to apply it.

    drilling is good, but remember, badminton is all about experience. practicing without actual game will not gonna increase your experience against another player
    sure you can do well on footwork, and shots, but once opponent can see the pattern, it is over for you (well, your technique is good, but you don't have good tactics and strategy). actual game will help you to understand yourselves and how to react against different opponent

    I am not gonna be very happy not to be able to play games and only doing drills for 3-4 months..
     
  6. Rykard

    Rykard Regular Member

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    you need to get out of the mindset of 'winning at all costs' - you need to put into practise what your coach tells you. You will lose a few games but eventually you will start to win - but win because of better technique and fitness
     
  7. Wingu

    Wingu Regular Member

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    I have to disagree with the people saying that games aren't good for you - but I don't agree with the ones saying that games are better than drills either.

    In my opinion, games are just as important as drills. The drills can only teach you so much unfortunately. A drill is often based on a fixed scenario while games are anything but that.
    The player needs to understand WHY one is doing this or that kind of drill but also how situations can change during those specific kinds of movements on the court. Just because you have mastered a certain movement during drills, doesn't mean you can always put it to 100% good use during an actual game. Therefore it is important to get used to games and how they can become very different from what you might have expected them to be (in example sudden changes in movements, feint shots etc).

    Like Avenger said, badminton is all about experience. You need game experience as well if you want to get good. I think a good balance between drills and games is the best option and not too much of either.
     
  8. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    IMHO, you need:

    1. Drills (in group settings as well as on an individual basis)
    2. Games
    3. training on strength, endurance, fitness, coordination, etc.
    4. Watch youtube videos on techniques and tournaments.
    5. Read
    6. Participate in local tournaments.
    7. Think, reflect and discuss
     
    #8 pcll99, Jan 1, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  9. captaincook

    captaincook Regular Member

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    In some clubs, most of the time you have no choice but to play games with players of different levels. There should always be balance between practice and games.
     
  10. iyuaeo

    iyuaeo Regular Member

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    Totally agree with this - in my social club there are players who have been playing more or less the same time I have been playing, but they do 80:20 drills/games while I am more like 30:70 drills/games. When I play them, sure, their footwork or shots might be cleaner but they often make boneheaded tactical decisions due to inexperience with actua​l game situations that negate all the other advantages. When that happens, it just makes it too easy for me. In a way, I feel guilty because the knowledge that their inexperience will bail me out during matches makes me slower to improve my fundamentals.

    Obviously if I played a player who did 50:50 drills/games I would lose, so my new year's resolution should probably be to get off my lazy bum and do more drills.
     
  11. Ferrerkiko

    Ferrerkiko Regular Member

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    In my opinion , both is important, when practise with coaches, your coach correct your mistake , when come to games, remember what you learn from drills.
     
  12. Wingu

    Wingu Regular Member

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    A problem with playing more games than doing drills also means that you won't be able to build a fitter body. By doing hard drills and such you will also build stamina and muscles you won't be able to achieve through games.

    I've been a member of a university club in Tokyo and is currently a member of a university club in Kyoto. I can't say for sure about other universities, but I think that in most cases, universities in Japan rely more on drills than games.

    In my current club, we focus on drills for compulsory practice days (3 days a week) but all other days (everyday) we can play games if we want to. Basically, what this means is that if you don't have time for practice beyond the compulsory practice days then there's no time for games at all except for some days before tournaments. Almost only then will there be game practice included.

    But then again, Japan is one of the better badminton countries and to focus on drills maybe do work...
     
  13. Sk1nNy

    Sk1nNy Regular Member

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    Agree with lots of you, drills and games have to be together. I take classes with a coach and always practice drills before games. The amount of time for each is quite equal 50:50.

    The important thing in drills is that you have to do it seriously and use every strength and power you have, I only stop to take some water when I can't even jump or run anymore. Do it over and over again. When going into games, focus, calm and use everything you have learned. Winning to me is that I'm able to use the technique I have learned. Loosing to me is when I can't get the technique right. Not about winning or loosing the opponent.
     
  14. Ferrerkiko

    Ferrerkiko Regular Member

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    In my opinion , drills are compulsory, even players in national teams are still doing drills. Drills make things become better!
     
  15. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    So, in my opinion, everyone here is talking about games and drills in general, without taking into consideration the skill of the player.

    Imagine you are a beginner, you are trying to learn to hit a clear for the first time. Is there any point in playing games? No. You need to do drills.

    Similarly, imagine you are trying to perfect your round the head forehand smash cross court. Is there any point doing this in games? No. Its probably not tactically a good choice, and you won't be able to focus on it properly.

    Imagine now that you are a semi professional, and last week you learnt to hit a better tight spinning net shot. Is it important TODAY that you do drills? Or play games? Well, playing practice matches is the most important thing because you ALREADY HAVE THE SKILL. Now you need to learn to apply it. But a game will not help you learn to master the skill.

    So, this is the important distinction: what are you trying to practice? Will it be best served by isolating it in a drill (if you are just learning something, then yes, drills are the most important). Or is it that you now need to learn to do it in game situations (but you CAN do it, you do not need to learn it)? In this case, you should do a practice game.

    So you see, as you get better, practice matches are most important.

    Finally remember, that the only important thing in order to improve is deliberate practice. This is practice where you are trying very hard mentally to achieve something, which you CAN achieve by thinking about it, but is not comfortable e.g. you CAN reach up higher and take the shuttle earlier, but you have to think about it to do it. Practice take the form of games or of drills. It doesn't matter which - but doing something mindlessly, games or drills, is not the correct thing to do!

    Good luck!
     
  16. Wingu

    Wingu Regular Member

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    No one is saying that someone that has played badminton for one week is supposed to go out on court and expect to be a good. I agree that you have to start out with drills and such, but I'd say 9 weeks is a good way into the learning progress and definitely a time to start playing games and see what kind of level you are on. I think it's important to set up goals within time limits and then use game practice to try and apply what you have learned during drills. There are also times of revelations during games as well, even for those who aren't 'semi-professionals', at least that's how it was for me and still is.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by a semi-professional, but even if someone already know how to play a shot doesn't mean it is refined to perfection (unless you are a 'full fledged'(?) professional). Even professionals do drills.
     
  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Thanks for your response. Perhaps my post wasn't clear! To say that someone should not play games is not what I was trying to say and certainly I wouldn't expect someone who has been playing a short space of time to be amazing. I do not think games are necessarily harmful.

    However, given the choice of spending time doing drills or playing games, where you COULD do either one, I think that as a beginner (as you will be even at 9 weeks), then focused drills with a coach is the best thing to do. I am not saying games will necessarily be harmful, but I do not believe they will be as beneficial as doing drills.

    You will hopefully, on rereading my post, agree that I did not say that professionals and semi professionals will not benefit from doing drills. Indeed, what I was trying (and perhaps failing) to say, was that, in order to practice to your best, you need to pick the practice that most suits what you are trying to achieve (goal setting you have already correctly mentioned). So, for an example, a professional player would absolutely do drills to improve the accuracy of their stick smashes, or the amount of spin they can impart on a tight spinning net shot. That professional would also gain a lot from playing certain types of practice games - but by comparison I do not think a beginner will benefit nearly as much!

    In my opinion, practice games should be focusing on applying skills that have been learnt already, and applying them in games. This is good to do at all levels. However, in order to do this, you should really be able to practice a skill you have already learnt. I do not think that beginners have necessarily learnt enough to go out and practice in an uncontrolled game (conditioned games are different - they are drills in my eyes).

    As such, I believe that a beginner will be MOST benefited from doing drills, because they need to learn the skills such that they can do them automatically. Bycomparison, an advanced player has more choices in the best way to practice - is it learning new skills/perfecting old skills in drills (just like the beginner) or is it learning to apply those things better in games (which a beginner is not capable of, because they have not yet reached a technical level that is going to yield helpful practice in games).

    That was the point of my post - as you get more advanced, the most "beneficial" practice changes.

    None of this takes into consideration what is fun, and what you should do if you DON'T have a choice. I certainly don't get to train very often, so I have to play games. Games are fun :) But I will never be as good as I can be without spending more time doing drills and perfecting my skills. Until I have those skills to practice in games, I will be limiting myself. That said, playing some badminton is better than no badminton at all!

    I agree with your post. Mine wasn't intended as at odds with anyone else. Just my (badly expressed) opinion on why the "games vs drills" debate is not as clear cut as "they are equally important" or "drills/games are better", because their importance is different depending on your skill level!
     
  18. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    I'll take a slightly different perspective, and assume that one takes as much coaching as they can (afford!). The question then becomes "Is playing games in addition to my coaching beneficial/detrimental?"

    To which I would answer "it depends" :p

    If the games are played without an intent to improve on technique, then technique is not going to improve. If you are playing against strong(er) opponents then at least you may be getting useful tactical experience.

    If the games are played with a mindset on improving some technical aspect, then I would say playing games in this context is beneficial 'in general'.

    Of course the downside to playing is that you strengthen muscle memory of any poor techniques that are employed (and indeed poor strategy/tactics that go unpunished by lesser opponents).
     
  19. catman

    catman Regular Member

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    I think coaches prefer beginners not to play games to prevent them from developing bad habits. It is a lot easier to teach good strokes from the beginning. It's a lot more difficult to correct and replace an bad stroke.

    So if possible, learn the basics correctly - then start playing games. Also, be sure to use the proper strokes - even if you might not win.
     
  20. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    when you play games, it is best that it be supervised by a coach. The coach should give u immediate feedback on your games.
     

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