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How do you deal with foul service complaints against you

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by mojopin, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. mojopin

    mojopin Regular Member

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    Playing a competitive MD match recently, won first set, and was leading 18-16 in the second and i had been serving very well, i was pausing long peroids sometimes and other times was serving without any warning ( once they were ready of course - A la tony gunawen.). Few very decpetive flicks etc. My serve is one of the few things im proud of and very confident in.

    My oppenent tried to call a foul, got the umpire involved ( who was from his club) and were chaging their story as to why they felt it was a foul. They couldnt cope with the very fast ones basically. I handed them a rule book. Other people got involved and it was all very awkward and unpleasent. I eventually resumed the game and was very annoyed that theyd stoop so low as to resort to childish phycological tactics like that. Served straight into the net. I was incredably annoyed at myself for letting it affect me , which set up a vicious circle of annoyance and i bottled the next 3 serves and lost the set. My hand was actually shaking a little i ws so angry and indignant. I eventually calmed down and we won the 3rd set, but i dont want this to happen again.

    How do you guys deal with (incorrect) foul service calls. My service is completly legal and nobody has ever said anything about it before , but how do you defend yourself when accused? Whats the fastest and easiest way that will avoid it bothering you.

    Im thinking ill just hand them a rule book silently, and continue playing if it happens again. What do you people do?
     
  2. Danstevens

    Danstevens Regular Member

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    Just stay calm, if your service is legal, the umpire will tell them it is and the game should continue. If things get a little more heated, I advise launching the rulebook in your opponent(s) general direction :rolleyes:. On a more serious note, just ignore it. I know it's hard but it is the best way. Maybe chat to your partner about something for a bit whilst that idiot goes and rants at the umpire.
     
  3. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    If there's an Umpire things should be simple. either he Faults your serve when you perform it, or nothing happens.
    In this regard I'm thinking umpire as in Offical-badminton-engalnd-provided-Ump. If he's just a team-player refereeing your match, he won't be so quick to fault it.

    Either way, Call it childish, call bad sportsmanship, faulty services are part of the game. And that brings with it people trying to complain about good/legal services.

    Don't let it get to you, and if I were you, I'd keep the rulebook in my bag during the game ;) It's just distracting, and costs a lot of time to look everything up, and argue even more.
    Just say "yeah whatever, I'll try and keep it legal", "I'll look into it", etc. Don't be rude, just tell them something, and continue as you were.

    I think that on-court, every arguement should be settled or ignored asap, it only detriments the game.
    If they persue their point after the game, get the book:p
     
  4. bad_fanatic

    bad_fanatic Regular Member

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    We get that a lot from where I play too. It's funny because the opponent that we play against will never complain if they win, but once losing, they'll start to complain about the our service.

    Well I used to let it get to me, but now I don't because even the pros like Fu/Cai, LYD/JJS, etc... has all gotten service fault called on them, so even the pros makes mistakes too. But the main reason why I don't let it get to me is because, what make them think that they're the god of badminton rules. If the majority of the people who you play against doesn't have a problem with it and they're the only ones then they are the problem. Not your serve.

    When I read your post, I find it funny that if they think you're serving when they're not ready, then why don't they just hold their hands up and ask you to wait until they're ready.
     
  5. mojopin

    mojopin Regular Member

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    Sometimes staying calm can be easier said than done. Guess its just one other aspect of the sport. Just thought ive ask/vent:)
     
  6. smash_master

    smash_master Regular Member

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    had that happen before, got called when playing mixed in a tournament. the kids that we were against kept saying that my serve was to high and above the waist and all that.

    the funny part was they kept saying "you serve is illegal we suggest you fix it or we will be forced to take drastic action" then it progressed to "your serve hasnt improved and we ask you to conced the game instead of cheating" and then to "your serve is still illegal at this time were going to call a survice judge" so to that i just said be my guest and they called one he came out sat there and when he was out there i must have served over 10 times and not once did he call a single fault on me.

    the kids after the match went in and complained to their parents and their parents were getting all whiny saying i was serving above my waist etc but whatever cause we had a service judge and he didnt call a single fault. i wont lie though through the 1st half when they were doing it well it got a lil annoying but cant let it get to you.

    overall the funny thing about it all was after they said it like your "waist" is the lowest rib so thats up to where i was serving and pretty well under that like it was decently low nowhere as high as you see some of the tp international players holding it some of them. but anyways yeah so i made it really low and they still kept saying it but yeah that just seems like a case of they didnt want to lose so try to find an excuse.
     
    #6 smash_master, Jan 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  7. ViningWolff

    ViningWolff Regular Member

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    The whole "first rib" change in the rule was asinine to begin with - most people aren't aware that your lowest rib can only be felt towards your back so they use their lowest rib around the front. For most people that's around your belly button give or take an inch and any additonal "sag" ;)

    FYI - most international doubles players have what I deem to be an illegal serve - however line judges don't call it because it's consistent. Lin Dan has a double action serve...period. He simply doesn't get called on it often.

    What irks me is when players start suddenly do varied serves that are illegal after being consistent for so long - this last weekend I hand one guy do a serves where it was not only too high, the head of his racquet as above his wrist. ( his intent was to short serve to the side line). I gave him a warning. he didn't do it again.

    Seeing I tend to do all kinds of angled and flick serves, I make damn sure I make contact below the waist.

    I was been called a couple times when I was back in juniors, at the time I was a shocked as I wasn't intending to be sneaky. But I don't think I've had a service call against me in 20 years. I also tend to ask people if my serve is getting too high when I play as I live by the flick.

    Smash masters serve is fine. Never seen any problems with it.
     
  8. Joseph

    Joseph Regular Member

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    I'd say call a service judge the next time around. Though you mentioned very fast serves, so I'm guessing you were attempting drive serves? At times, people lift up their racket head a bit higher unknowingly when they do these types of serves and end up committing a fault. Just thought I'd toss that into the fire.
     
  9. jymbalaya

    jymbalaya Regular Member

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    Ah yes, the voice of common sense. it can get very frustrating to tell people that simple fact, especially at a tournament......
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    For kids, they are still learning the limits. They are very vocal to express what they see as unfair. The trouble comes when they have learnt a rule with a different interpretation - hitting the shuttle below the waist is equivalent to: 1st rib? level of elbow? whole of the racquet head needs to be below the waist? below the waistline of the shorts?

    It has happened to me before using your tactic. I love it when it happens. It shows you've really rattled them. However, I really cannot understand why you let it bother you though. Your tactic has TWO functions in gaining the advantage. First is to win the point/create for yourself the advantage within the play. Second is to confuse the opponent.

    You have obviously prepared for the confusion by keeping the rule book in your bag. You've shown that the opponents are confused.

    I think the only thing that one can prepare for is that in the face of a challenge like that, you can call a let. I might even put in a subtle remark that they cannot handle good serves. But let's see what happens on the next point after that? Are they making predictable returns of serves? Due to the break in play, the gameplay tactics obviously drop. This is a chance for you to really dominate. After such an event, I would play a wide serve. You'd be surprised how many people make a low, straight return from such a serve. That is a chance to intercept and kill the point and morale of the opponents (a la Tony Gunawan). Such a play will show them you are in total control of the tactics of the game.
     
  11. venkatesh

    venkatesh Regular Member

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    I've never had complaints against my service. But in a tournament, when I complain of my opponent's service and the umpire does not call a service judge and, basically, nothing is done, it affects my game entirely. :mad:

    Look at it this way ... I'm the whiny kid. I'm more affected than you. My concentration is deeply affected by my difficulty of reception. That means YOU take control. That means YOU have the advantage. The best way for me to do is to turn the table around and complain so that you'd also get distracted. Apparently, you did, thus, losing the 2nd set.

    Don't let the opponent psych you out. Remember that badminton is also a psychological battle, and a psychological tactic is still a tactic however "childish" it may be. We must deal with it. Now, if you are indeed faulty, then let the service judge handle it. If called fault, that's the time you should make adjustments.

    You say the umpire is from their club? Was it obvious that he's on the kids' side?
     
  12. smash_master

    smash_master Regular Member

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    sorry for my example when i said kids i didnt mean like actual little kids, like they were "kids" but not super young, there junior provincial players who play lots of tournaments junior and open.
     
  13. mojopin

    mojopin Regular Member

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    i wasnt doing a drive serve. Drive serves are pretty foolish against most semi decent players.I was simply preparing myself, waiting until the opponent was ready, and then instead of holding up the racket and pausing to serve , i just bring the shuttle and racket up from my sides and serve very quickly - i just like it to add some variety.

    Sorry about spelling Tony Gunawan's name incorrectly. Im a terrible speller.

    Kids are one thing, but I'm 21 and this guy was about 30. Our partners were the same ages as us.In our league matches, we simply ask a member of the team to umpire the matches. Its usually fair as umpires are from both teams. This umpire was clearing trying to support his teammate, which angered me. The rest of his team were getting involved from the sidelines etc . My team were rather subdued and shy so I felt a little isolated and got very defensive . Sadly, no service judges during the leagues :(

    And Jerby, Why would i have an offical Badminton England Umpire? Im not sure how they get umpires in Holland, but I dont think we can afford to fly English guys all the way over here :)

    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=TEWmCrFgCvo

    = found a link to the serve. Im now a bit embarrased because it is Candra Wijaya who serves that way , not Tony. :p
    See its very fast so the opponent must concentrate very hard or he will react a little late. I vary between this and a more convention kinda of "holding " before serve.
     
    #13 mojopin, Jan 15, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2009
  14. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    Sorry, my bad, I misread Ireland for England.
    Anyway, here in Holland we have two umpires, a referee and 0-4 linejudges for the highest division (primary division)
    and for the firts division (beneath that) we get 2 umpires for a match.
    Below that you're on your own and you umpire your own matches.
    Having a team-player playing umpire, or having an actual umpire makes a difference if you ask me, especially when it comes to stuff like services.

    Serving fast or serving slow is hardly in the rulebook: as long as they stand like they're ready (not making an real indication that they're not:eek:) and try and hit the serve, you're in the clear.
     
  15. mojopin

    mojopin Regular Member

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    wow, all those judges. At some of the higest provencial tournaments here, your still expected to make all the calls yourself, and the umpire is only a score keeper. Thankfully, hes independant. But still, relying on players to make calls at almost every level of play except national tournaments is ridiculous.
     
  16. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    well, at tournaments and every league match except those at the highest level aren't refereed at all,s o that's pretty similar...
    Overal it goes pretty well, but situations with services are always tricky.

    But gererally, if you just ignore it and play on, not getting bothered with it, it's easy.
    If they're really nasty people they might try and fault your service while receiving it (catching it mid-air and claiming the point). Don't respond, hold out your hand "give it" and play a let (remember, serve the exact same way as you did, don't let them win:p)

    Or just be clever "a fault? why? you were ready, right?"
     
  17. hiroisuke

    hiroisuke Regular Member

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    No matter what, a key point to the game is to not be upset. Opponents will try lots of things just to try to throw the tempo off. Simply put, if you get upset, they have succeeded (even if that's not what they were trying to do). As such, get used to the different things they may try to do to annoy you. Use the Force, you shall. XD
     
  18. robc06

    robc06 Regular Member

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    I think a note to point out is that you have to serve consistantly. That means you can't change how quickly/slow you serve throughout a set, your serving has to remain consistant. Otherwise you can be called for wasting time, although this is vary dependent on the Umpire. In a tournament the umpire can call you on this, I dont think its a foul serve though. The time between points is also dependent largely on the umpire.
     
  19. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Do not be affected by childish psychological tactics

    .
    mojopin ... It's great to hear that you are playing competitively. At competition, some will resort to this type of childish psychological tactics to upset you. So, don't fall for it, because if you do, your normal game will be affected.

    On the question of 'How do you defend yourself when accused?'. In Melbourne, Australia, there is usually a competition referee at each venue to solve this type of problem. If you do not have one at your venue, perhaps it is best to ask players from neighbouring matches to resolve the problem.

    By the way, there are many ways your opponents can resort to childish psychological tactics.
    Some examples are;
    Your opponent not agreeing to your wish to change a damaged shuttlecock.
    Your opponents making unfriendly comments/gestures to you during play.
    Your opponents taking drink/towel breaks unnecessarily, and/or wasting time.
    etc......

    As posters above have said, just stay calm and don't be affected by these psychological tactics.

    :):):)
    .
     
  20. wing-omega5-0

    wing-omega5-0 Regular Member

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    i just dont worry about it. the worst thing u can do is lose the psychological half of the game cuz at that point the physical doesnt matter so much. believe in your abilities =)
     

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