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how long can one take to serve?

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by decoy, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    That would be me :D
     
  2. axl886

    axl886 Regular Member

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    One of the most tardy singles player to serve is prolly Eriko Hirose.

    The way she holds the shuttle so high above her head (for what seems like an infinite length of time) reminds me of those ancient Greek statues! :p
     
    #22 axl886, Jan 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2012
  3. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    Hirose was faulted once at one of the GPG events, for you guessed it, delay of game.
     
  4. bambino

    bambino Regular Member

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    Invariably in most match videos I have seen, the serve is done within 5 seconds. This is about the standard timing adopted by most qualified umpires.

    Once both the server and receiver are ready for the serve, it should not take more than 5 seconds. Beyond the 5 seconds, the receiver can lose concentration and his stance unstable. If i were the receiver, and the umpire has not intervened, I will stop and highlight this delay to the umpire. By doing so, u will get rid of this nonsense.
    Eriko Hirose is taking 5-7 seconds to deliver her serve, which she is rightly faulted for pushing her luck.
     
  5. serviceover

    serviceover Regular Member

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    The "unwritten" rule is about 5 seconds...

    Personally, I would call the offending player to me and inform them that once both players have taken their positions, thy must not unduly delay the delivery of the shuttle..

    If not heeded, they will be faulted for service delay....
     
  6. raceto21

    raceto21 Regular Member

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    its nice to know that CANTSMASHTHIS and (possibly) SERVICEOVER are umpires. i will definitely put more attention on your posts.
    kinda off topic ( but just like the delay of service rule i want to have a clearer definition on and have one formulated) - there should also be a rule against a player BLOWING HIS NOSE on the sidelines- a practice i find unsanitary and disgusting to me as a spectator.

    i believe if you elevate the standards then you elevate the game! thanks for everyones reply.
     
  7. bambino

    bambino Regular Member

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    I agree with the unwrittten rule of 5 seconds.

    But in a match situation, u don't have the time to talk it over with your opponent. If you are irked by his antics, I will let him delay as long as he wants and then stopped him when he is about to serve and make the complain to the umpire. This way you are giving him a dose of his own medicine.
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    I know exactly who you mean... he's practically the only pro athtlete I know of who does this on live telecast!
     
  9. bambino

    bambino Regular Member

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    He is a top pro, so that the cameras follow him everywhere. I think BWF should provide courtside hand sanitizers for the Superseries tournament and avoid screening to the disgust of the TV viewers.

    If u ban it, he will give walkover instead.
     
  10. johnv

    johnv Regular Member

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    It is very useful to pause briefly while holding the shuttle in the serve ready position and judge the posture and position of the receiver and their partner.

    In doubles against an aggresively poised receiver, placement is important. Also they may become uncomfortable holding their tensed position and rebalance themselves slightly (serve!)

    I dont think it causes undue delay, it only need two seconds or so and allows you to concentrate on your serving action.

    During tournaments i see the receivers tend to be slowing down play more while preparing to receive the serve.
     
  11. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    umpire cannot apply unwritten rules, and there is no 5 second limit

    In many match videos, yes, the service will take about the time you observed. But not all. And it looks like you are timing when the player is setting to serve, correct? Not from when the rally ends to when the rally starts. This latter time is usually anywhere from 13-22 seconds, and in many games, a wider range.

    There is no such thing in the rule book or the recommendations as standard timing adopted by umpire, qualified or not; the time is dependent on the game situation, and the player/s.

    The general practice will be - when the server is ready, the receiver must be ready, and vice versa. Once again, there is no time limit. The umpire will consider among other things, is the court safe to play (no sweat drops, etc), request for shuttle change, broken racquet strings or broken racquet, or a quick towel, player needing medical attention (scrapes, or blood) etc.

    A player loosing his/her concentration or having an unstable stance is not the umpire's responsibility. If you as a player, stop and highlight such a delay to the umpire, do not be surprised to hear from the umpire something like - Bambino, you are here to play, so play, do not do my work. Now, get back in your court and be ready to receive.


    Unwritten rules? There is no such thing. A general practice, perhaps (see above).

    An umpire cannot enforce unwritten laws or rules of competition.

    As for the calling the offender, it is best to do this the first or the second time you as an umpires sees it happen, or in any case, early in the [first] game, not when all the water has gone under the bridge. For example, it will not be a good practice to all the offender/s in the rubber game with only five points more to play. That would be very harsh.

    And even then, you may not want to give the ultimatum and tie your hands, like you will be faulted for service delay. Why? There may be several other mitigating factors that may be relevant (see above - wet court, shuttle/racquet change, medical help, etc)


    Agreement with others on this forum does not mean it will be correct.

    And in match situation, as a player you do not want to be talking with your opponent, at least with your mouth. Why? This could be interpreted as distraction, or intimidation, and therefore unsporting behaviour. Your giving the same medicinal-dose is probably a good method. Dont be surprised if the umpire gives instructions to both of you to "Play," or even call you and let you both know that s/he knows what is going on and "Bambino, s/he is ready to serve, you must be ready to receive," or "Bambino, s/he is ready to receive, you must be ready to serve."


    This time limit is partially correct. Rule 30 in tennis - Continuous Play and Rest Periods - the USTA states that
    "The 20 second rule applies only to certain international circuits and team events recognized by the ITF. When practical, in USTA sanctioned tournaments using a certified official in direct observation of the match, the time which shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the point to the time the ball is struck shall not exceed 25 seconds.]"

    However, just like badminton, in tennis also, the Umpire shall use his discretion when there is interference which makes it impractical for play to be continuous.

    There is one situation that tennis rules are clear on and that in badminton there is no equivalent, and this is:
    When changing ends a maximum of one minute thirty seconds shall elapse from the moment the ball goes out of play at the end of the game to the time the ball is struck for the first point of the next game.

    In badminton as the game is not played on three levels as tennis (game, set, match) but only two, there is no time limitation binding a player when the rally ends in any game and the next rally must start, unless it is the rally preceding the interval or it is the game winning rally.
     
    #31 2wheels04, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  12. 2wheels04

    2wheels04 Regular Member

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    And this time will increase as the game and match progresses, or after making a come-back, or after taking a lead and then loosing the rally. Most coaches will recommend slowing down the game, to re-focus, and this is good coaching. When this becomes unfair practice by player/s is when the umpire may take appropriate action.
     
  13. serviceover

    serviceover Regular Member

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    @2wheels04:

    How long would u let them stand, once both are ready... 10, 15, 30 seconds ??

    Are you an Umpire ? Ever sat in the chair ? If so, what level ?
     
    #33 serviceover, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
  14. bambino

    bambino Regular Member

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    Firstly, let me clarify to all that I am seeing this issue as if a player in a competitive match.

    To 2wheels04, I am surprised by yr elaborate explanations. You are not addressing the issue here. I
    am referring to the specific time duration when both server and receiver are ready. Not the time players are catching some breath in between rallies.

     
  15. diverdan

    diverdan Regular Member

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    A good example is the Danish player Boe. Look at the Danish Open 2012. Playing against KKK and TBH he took a ridiculus amount of time to serve. It was almost long enough for the receiver to grow roots from his feet. I think this was his intention which is bordering on bad sportsmanship but the umpires let him get away with it.

    As for the amount of time between rallies - some mens double pairs like Bo Mo and LYD JJS take forever to settle down. It takes the momentum away from the pair that is in the ascendency. The time from when the rally ends and service starts should be governed by more aware umpiring.
     
    #35 diverdan, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  16. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^^ Boe and Ma Jin are the worst... when they serve, many times I thought there was a problem with the video feed causing it to pause for 5 secs! :p.

    If they served to me, I would have tipped over and lost balance for having to wait so long. :)

    And then there's the opposite end of the spectrum with Ko Sun Hyun who has practically no serve preparation at all... he just walks up to the service line and serves many times when the opponent is not even ready. :D
     
    #36 visor, Oct 23, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  17. bambino

    bambino Regular Member

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    I didn't notice about Ko but Ricky Subagja was the foremost practitioner of sneaky service. He didn't look up when he served, catching opponents unaware in many instance.

    At the slow end of the spectrum are Boe and Hirose who are taking forever to serve and rather irritating to watch.

     
  18. Erik L.

    Erik L. Regular Member

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    In dealing with undue delay we must distinguish between time consumption before the server has taken up his position to serve and time consumption after the server has done so. In the first case, we have a misconduct case which, when recommendations have no effect, constitutes a delay of play and that is a yellow card offence. Using too much time after the server has taken up his position, is a normal fault which, when called, will give the receiver a point.

    There are no time limmits, but the main criterium is that the purpose of any action in between rallies should be to resume play. Basically this means that after a rally has ended, the server gets the shuttle, goes to his position, focusses, and delivers the service.

    At any time during a match any time consumption should be in line with the general average in that match. In dealing with this aspect of the game, the umpire uses his better judgement.
     
    #38 Erik L., Oct 24, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2012
  19. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^^ Thanx for clarifying.

    Now a hypothetical case: what if I combine all the worst characteristics of Boe/ Ma Jin (taking 5 secs to serve from the prepared racket), of BoMo (taking 20 secs in between points to get ready by patting each other, high fiving a few times), and Joachim Fisher's double action serve? ;) :p
     
  20. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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