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Illegal Receiving

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by tonten, Jul 18, 2002.

  1. tonten

    tonten Regular Member

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    If your opponent is serving to you, are u allowed to stand anywhere on the court to receive the serve?

    Or if ur opponent is serving to you, do u have to stand behind the service line to receive the serve?

    My friend told me it is illegal to move across the service line as a receiver if the server has not made contact with the bird yet in a serve.

    When someone serves to me, I often charge forward to hit the birdy. My friend tells me that when he serves to me, I start charging forward before his birdy even makes contact with his racket, and this is illegal?
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    in other words. you feet must be planted on the floor before your opponent hits the shuttle. and more specificly, they must be in the service court and not touching the lines either.

    so your friend is correct.

    you can find the complete Laws of badminton in http://www.badmintoncentral.com/badminton-central/laws/laws.shtml. it is a good and interesing read, you will find a lot of things that you didn't know before. all badminton players should read through it completely at least once.
     
  3. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Movement

    "planted" might be a bit too restrictive when describing the movement allowed by the receiver as the server is serving. the receiver can, indeed, move his/her body forward (or backward) as long as neither foot is completely lifted or slides from its original position until the serve contact the shuttle.

    this says that the receiver can shift their weight, & remove PART of 1 or both feet from the ground prior to server contact of the shuttle. Sooo... you can START your lunge toward the net as the server's racket moves forward toward the shuttle, just as long as receiver's feet abide by the rules described. the same goes for the server's feet & movement.

    since the BODY can move PRIOR to the delivery of the shuttle, it might be difficult, in some cases, to determine if the receiver has violated the serve/receive laws.
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    yes. "planted" was a little bit strong, but hey, i thought that would emphasize my point. :)
     
  5. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    Re: Movement

    Yes, but this leaves you vulnerable to the deadly flick serve. :D

    At least it would if you started leaning forward against me when I'm serving, since I look at the receiver's waist/lower body area when serving. Any forward movement before I hit the shuttle, and POW! Flick serve.

    It's pretty funny sometimes in club play when someone is coiled up to spring on a short serve, and I just wait a few seconds for them to fall over. You should try it sometime, its fun. :)

    Phil
     
  6. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    u r so right, Phil. i wasn't really recommending the early weight shift or lunge as a standard practice, i was merely pointing out what is legal/illegal as i interpret the laws of badm. "jumping" on the short serve should be used judiciously; how often the receiver employs it should be, in part, based on the abilities of the server.

    i've also used the delayed serve tactic in order to elicit a premature jump or loss of balance by the receiver. as the receiver is losing their balance, the server then can easily place the shuttle for a service winner. however, i'm not sure that this serving tactic is actually legal in the light of 9.1.1 and 9.5 of the serving laws. has the server committed a fault by causing an "undue delay" of service delivery? Law 9.1.1 seems to be too ambiguous; it would really be a subjective call.

    if the server delivers a serve upon seeing the receiver loses their balance, can the receiver invoke Law 9.5 & claim that the server delivered the serve when they (the receiver) was not ready? if the server has not started the fwd motion of their racket toward the shuttle when the receiver loses balance, then the reciever has not really committed a (Law 9.1.3) fault. However, it might be argued that if the server delivers a serve (upon seeing the receiver lose balance) has committed a fault as per Law 9.1.1 or Law 9.5 ...


    9.1.1 (In a correct service) neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once server and receiver have taken up their respective positions;

    9.5 The server shall not serve before the receiver is ready but the receiver shall be considered to have been ready if a return of service is attempted.
     
  7. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    I read somewhere that the rule is five seconds to serve. Most of the time when I let someone fall over, it is around four seconds. I never serve when they're falling over in club play, so we have a good chuckle and reset for service.

    I consider "not ready" to happen if the serve was delivered before the receiver was still and waiting for the serve. If the receiver starts falling over, serving should be fine while they are still falling over. However, if you let them fall completely and lose their footing, and then serve, I would consider that not ready. Of course, if they still go after the shuttle, then they're considered "ready."

    Phil
     
  8. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Where did this 5 second rule come from? I'm sure that there must be some time limits in badm but I've not come across any in the Laws.


    If the server is able to time the serve appropriately they could deliver a legal serve as the receiver is losing their balance. If the server sees that the receiver is about to lose their balance but neither foot has yet come off the ground (or slid from its original position), the server can legally deliver the serve BEFORE the receiver is NOT ready. In fact, if the receiver lifts a foot after the server starts the fwd movement of the racket but before the shuttle is contacted, then the server can claim that the receiver violated Law 9.1.3

    Its all a matter of split-second timing... in 1 case the reciver has violated Law 9.1.3, in the other case, the server has violated 9.5 of the Laws.

    Speaking of Law 9.5, what do we make of the phrase, "... the receiver shall be considered to have been ready if a return of service is attempted."? Does a body movement of the receiver constitute an attempt? Does the receiver actually have to swing their racket at the shuttle?
     
  9. Phil

    Phil Regular Member

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    If someone serves when I'm not ready, I just watch the bird land. Then I pick it up and give it back to them and say that I wasn't ready.

    Here is a list as to what I think constitutes an attempt:

    swinging the racquet
    jumping
    lunging
    backpedaling

    Any of these by themself or combined counts as an attempt.

    If someone jumps at a flick serve but doesn't swing because they weren't ready, I think that counts as an attempt. If you weren't ready, why did you jump for it? You must have been in a position to react that quickly in the first place which would mean readiness.

    On another note, some people will serve and if they catch you off guard and you make a weak attempt to return it, they will ask if you were ready and offer to reserve. I decline to reserve because I went attempted to hit it.

    Bottom line - If you are not ready and they serve, just let the bird hit the ground and give it back to them calmly stating that you were not ready. However, don't abuse it by claiming unreadiness on every good flick serve that cathes you.

    Phil
     
  10. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    I always thought both feet has to be completely inside the service area? If only parts of both feet are required, then players can etch forward a few inches legally so long as their heels touch the line?
     
  11. yonexfanatic

    yonexfanatic Regular Member

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    The first part where you said both feet are required to be completely inside the service area is correct. What you suggested secondly would be illegal.
     
  12. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    i misread the rules Kwun posted above. :eek:
     
  13. ruth1

    ruth1 Regular Member

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    I went to a tournament this weekend, and as well as playing, I got to umpire the mens doubles final and the mixed doubles final (i got knocked out in the mixed semis). So in the mixed doubles final that I was umpiring, this girl would keep her head down but raise her eyes to see you. And as soon as you gave her eye contact indicating readiness, she would serve a high flick. The problem was, she wouldn't even wait one second after you looked at her and had your racket raised. It was also deceiving the way she would serve because she never had her head up.

    Anyway, the receivers never raised their hand that they weren't ready nor did they comment on her serving. However, you could tell they were often caught off guard. My question is, as an umpire, if the server continues to do this am I obligated to tell her something if the receiving team doesn't make an explicit indication that they're annoyed or continuously say they aren't ready? I'm not sure why they didn't object. Maybe they felt intimidated by her level of play or by her tournament experience.???
     
  14. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    A Related Question:

    In doubles, player A serves - where CAN player B stand?

    #1 In the middle of the line, one foot on each side of the halves of the court.

    #2 Both foot entirely on the opposite half of the court ie right if server is left vice versa.

    #3 Right behind the server in the same half of the court.

    Number #1 and #2 is correct, but is #3 legal? It looks dumb for sure, as well as dangerous as the other court is not covered.

    #1 is the the most common, while most beginners or people playing beginners would play with #2.
     
  15. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    As an umpire, you are there to enforce the rules and the lady never did break any rules (that I am aware of). If her opponents are not ready, they should indicate so by holding up their hand and even if they didn't, they get her to reserve.
     
  16. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    Anywhere within the court (and probably off the court too).
     
  17. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    It is an umpires responsibility to call service faults, either receiving or performing service, not to give advice or their personal opinion on the possible "annoyance" of a players service technique. If a player serves illegally then you immediately call a fault. If a player serves within all badminton laws regarding service and play (undue delays, actions, behavior, etc.) then everything fine as far as what you should be concerned with. It is the sole responsibility of the receiving player to stop the play after an "unfairly quick" service is performed on them if they were not yet ready. It happens in international play all the time.

    However, if the tournament is just a small local tournament with players may not know all the laws, then I'd use your better judgement in deciding what to do. If it was an important match, I would personally call the receiving team over and let them know that if they are being served to before they are ready that it is within their legal rights to stop play and force a reserve. Or perhaps discretely tell someone else to let them know of it? In a ranking tournament where I would expect everyone to know all the laws I wouldn't care at all as long as everything was legal.

    Although in your example, because that girl kept serving with her head down, it seems rather obvious that the opposing players could also not tell whether the girl was actually ready to perform her serve as well. So they could technically be standing around, wondering if she was ready to serve, or just thinking about something else. I believe it goes both ways, so in that specific case, I would call the girl over and tell her that if she did it any more you would call it a fault because she is deliberately trying to trick her opponents before service even begins. She might as well have been pretending to pick her nose, or talk to her partner, and then quickly serve.

    Don't you just hate players that pull that kind of crap all the time? :D


     
  18. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    Your partner can stand anywhere on the court that is not obstructing the view or play of the service or the server.

    I believe they can't stand off the court because I think you're technically not allowed to leave the court without the umpires consent. Not sure about that one though because I've seen players run off the court to switch racquets in mid-rally :D.
     
  19. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    In the part of the Laws that is Recommendations to Court Officials
    3. Recommendations to Umpires
    3.9 Ensure that players do not leave the court without the umpire's permission. However, change of a racket at courtside during a rally is permitted.


    P.S.
    I think this would have been legal if you hadn't said "touch the line".
    If the heel is inside the service court, the toes could overhang the line. And if you were right at the back of the service court, your toes could be in the court but your heel could overhang the line.

    Not particularly advisable, but legal, I think.
     
  20. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I agree that the emphasis is good to remind us always.

    Remember, some "part" of BOTH "feet" MUST remain in "contact" with the court surface in a "STATIONARY' position. Just don't move your legs and body too much that you move your feet too!
     

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