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Incline (slope) vs Stairs, a discussion within badminton training

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by jug8man, Oct 17, 2005.

  1. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    Hi,

    Statement of problem & objective
    #1 Which form of excercise (slope vs stairs) better suit the badminton development / conditioning of an individual.
    #2 to better understand the lower body component in badminton and its development
    #3 to further indentify if possible, the muscle groups which play the greater role in badminton supremacy, as well as different function roles of each muscle group (all refer to lower body)
    #4 to identify and acknowledge (as a forum) which muscle groups benefit from each training style.

    Introduction
    Jogging has long been a standard practiced form of excercise for athlethic and sport conditioning. When man began to realize that running on level ground just did not develop that extra power that we are looking for, man then modified their training regimes to running inclining (and some times declining :D ) slopes. another training methodology that arrised was running up flights of stairs.

    each sport is played diffently to a degree. therefore the training and conditioning excercises will vary dapending on the requirement of each sport. At an exstream view, badminton and weightlifting are obvious examples of an apple and an orange. however sports like badminton and perhaps basketball share many grey areas.



    SO, is there a difference between the two?
    -YES THERE IS

    Stairs
    running up stairs require the athlete to raise his knees for every step as he can not allow his feet to swing freely in a horizontal manner. the stairs design requires significantly more vertical movement of the legs, knees and feet (reader has not found or have searched for any empirical study to back this claim :D )

    Inclining Slope
    the movement of the human feet are in the design of 'gliding' near the surface of the slope surface. There is less need for the runner to lift his knees as compared to a stair excercise with the same 'average incline angle'.

    This initial comparison surely highly favours the stairs training which provides greater ressistance and strength development at similar 'slope angles' as their 'inclining' counterpart. so does this mean that stairs should be the prefered training for avid badminton players? alas......... badminton is not as simple as such ;)


    The study continues......... in our BC Forum discussion !

    So....... does vertical leg movement (knee lifts) training benefit a badminton players game? or does vertical leg movement have but very little to do with badminton in reality...... let us discuss :)


    i leave this to the floor (forum) to debate & decide


    cheers from sunny side malaysia

    8man
     
  2. Dave18

    Dave18 Regular Member

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    I guess ultimately, they both have their own benefits.

    Running up stairs, would help you build more muscles because you're working more parts of your legs and at the same time make you more tired.

    Running on flat grounds just really helps your stamina but since badminton is played on flat grounds, I believe that running on flat grounds would be more beneficial since we are more accustomed to it.

    But I guess running stairs and then running on flat grounds would be the best thing to do.
     
  3. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    In figuring out what types of exercises to do, it is essential to apply the principle of specificity. Essentially, beyond a "basic" level of training, doing more of a specific exercise will only improve performance in that specific movement. Also, if the training is done at high speed, then high speed performance will be affected; if the training is more endurance oriented, then the endurance aspects of performance will be improved.

    When going up a slope or stairs, one must keep in mind that the exercise is an uphill movement, whereas badminton is played on a flat surface. The directions in which you apply force relative to your body's position, your physical orientation in order to maintain stability and the angles through which your joints would be acting would be different than in a badminton situation. As a result, direct performance benefits may be limited compared to doing level-ground exercises.

    However, some general conditioning exercises are often done because they are convenient to do and can 'easily' be done in sufficient volume to produce a training effect. These exercises can improve the general strength and endurance of muscles, which may allow the body to handle more intense specific exercises later. So hill-running and stair climbing might be able to fit into this category of training. Actually, weight lifting (olympic style) is an excellent general exercise that develops strength and power in the legs, in the same motion that is used for vertical jumping.

    Just keep in mind that your badminton training shouldn't always be the same throughout the season. At the beginning of the season, or before (pre-season), you usually want to have more general conditioning exercises, more to prepare your body for the stresses of later training. Then, as the season progresses, you'll want to shift your emphasis to more sport specific exercises such as shadow footwork since the benefits to your badminton game would be more significant at that point.
     
  4. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

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    Yes, badminton is played on flat surfaces. However, do note that lunges and jumps actually uses a lot of vertical leg movement like sprinting up stairs and inclined slopes does. So yes, sprinting up stairs and running up an incline are good to build up your leg strength and endurance. However, it also ruins your knee. Be warned :D just to add, I recommend a mix of weights and plyometrics training instead to build up leg strength and endurance. It is less damaging to your knee ;) An alternative to all this is cycling up hill.
     
  5. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    Yes, running up stairs uses a lot of the same muscles used in lunging, but consider how your body is moving:

    In a lunge, your muscles contract eccentrically to stop your forward motion. Then in moving back they push off horizontally to give you backwards motion.

    On the stairs, your hip flexors contract to raise your legs into the starting position (doesn't train eccentric motion). Then your legs push off, but instead of a backwards horizontal motion, it is forwards at the slope of the stairs.

    So what I mean is that the stair climbing would be much more limited in its ability to improve your lunging compared to an exercise such as, well, lunges!
     
  6. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Stairs will give you more aerobic/anaerobic (if you get there) benefit because you need to raise your legs higher. However, it also will put more stress on your body when compared to an incline slope.

    When doing stairs, you need to make sure to concentrate on the stairs. It would be bad to slip or fall, not that that's happened to me before. :eek: :p
     
  7. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    The stairs in my house are at an incline of about 42 degrees
    It is unusual, in most of the country (UK) to find roads that have an incline > 6 degrees. Even the steepest roads would be 1 in 3, or 33%, or about 19 degrees. Even short stretches of road for bridges wouldn't be that steep.

    So yes. Running on most inclines will be easy than running up stairs.
    If you do try to run up a very steep slope, I think you may be in danger of different injuries than on stairs, e.g. over-extension of the achilles, as opposed to tripping on stairs and hitting yourself on sharp edges
     
  8. ruth1

    ruth1 Regular Member

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    I'm not in total agreement that running on a slope is easier than running stairs. Having run a total of 1,500 stairs and running the same distance on a mountain with pavement, i found the stairs easier. I'm not sure why. And in contrast, this athlete that could beat me when running on the hill, could not catch me when running up the stairs. i think it's good to mix up the routine. one week try a slope. another week try the stairs.
     
  9. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Depends on the incline. If the slope is very steep, yes, it can be harder than stairs.
     
  10. theasiandude88

    theasiandude88 Regular Member

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    just to remind you guys

    a chinese doctor that i trust told me not to do any of these steep or stairs since it is bad for your knees. just a reminder
     
  11. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Actually, Badminton is bad for your knees. So is running, so is playing most other sports. The food we eat is not good for us either, the air we breathe, not good, the people we encounter (outside the Badminton Club ;) ), not good either.

    It's all relative. :p :D
     
  12. __Lam

    __Lam Regular Member

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    simple stuff

    uphill/stairs = conditioning and strengthening of legs

    downhill sprints = explosiveness and speed training
     
  13. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    Round 2!

    I observe the stair training getting a heavy beating from the discussion that has transpired in the last 12 hours. This was due to the fact that people do not seem to relate vertical leg movement to a sport played on flat level ground.

    However! some1 has already pointed out that certain movement and steps on court is similar to having to lift or bend their knees. Perhaps there is hope for the stair training as yet.

    SO let the discussion continue. we must find just exactly how these training methods contribute to badminton. :)


    cheers
    8man

    but please try to keep the discussion in topic and avoid being sidetracked less relevent topics.
     
  14. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    On the slight off topic note............. injury. i must say that proper conditioning of the body prior to intensive slope / stairs training is essential to reduce unnecesary excess strain on the knees and other joints.

    e.g. proper weight.
     
  15. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Neither is specific to badminton.

    Either can be used for anaerobic or aerobic work depending on intensity / rest intervals.

    Neither is harder or easier, its like saying is running harder than cycling, clearly either is hard depending on the intensity, bodyweight, fitness of the individual.

    Whether running, doing footwork, weights or whatever it essential to be progressive, start at an easy volume and add no more than 10% a week.

    Run 6 x 400m on grass or sand , flat or varying incline, that wil cover most of the off court training necessary for conditioning below elite levels.
     
  16. Darma Sucipto

    Darma Sucipto Regular Member

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    Yes...definetily..i 100% agree that staircase benefits badminton game a lot. Because it also helped me a lot. since i started doing staircase training, my footwork becamed much faster and much more better. I usualy run from ground floor to 14'th floor daily (1 day rest)....
     
  17. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    Downhill sprints is a definite no-no. Not only are you impacting your joints with your weight, the stress is compounded by gravity. Uphill sprints on the other hand is safer as it's harder to pick up enough speed to hurt your knees. It's definitely safer than running on a level ground or running downhill (which is worse than the other two).

     
  18. terror

    terror Regular Member

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    isnt running uphill or up the stairs similar to doing squats? except with each step u are pushing your body upwards with one leg instead of two legs, as in squats. to me its like a combination of running and doing really explosive squats together and i agree with

    i usually walk down this pretty steep slope from my house to take a bus to school, and im already feeling the additional stress on my knees.
     
  19. Slammer

    Slammer Regular Member

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    most mills can't incline more than 15 or 16 so i would say that jumping ropes and stairs are the best
     
  20. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    What effect might downhill sprinting have on soreness? I have read that downhill running, because of the frequent eccentric contractions, has an "inoculating" effect against soreness (besides the soreness resulting from that specific workout) that lasts several weeks. Apparently, the heavier impact does a more better job of breaking down weak muscle fibers.

    Also, downhill running is also a form of over-speed training. E.g. if you want to be able to run faster, part of the solution is to force your legs to turn-over at a faster rate. You can do this by having your body move faster than your normal running rate - which can be accomplished by introducing the additional acceleration due to gravity.
     

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