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increasing wrist snap speed

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by jchan23, Jul 25, 2008.

  1. jchan23

    jchan23 Regular Member

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    Title says it all, is there any way to increase the speed at which I snap my wrist? I think I have the wrist strength (Forearm related i think), But my wrist snapping speed seems to be slow (evident when I try to do drives/backhand clear since I can't do consistent ones)

    Also, tryin to increase my smash speed through faster snaps hopefully since I can normally smash through the regular club players but on the better ones, I feel like I'm being controlled too much and not putting on enough pressure
     
  2. pHysiX

    pHysiX Regular Member

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    from what i'm reading, u have the power but the recovery time is slow therefore the snap is not too great.

    try getting a fair weight like an average weight racquet (don't use heavy weights because you will damage your muscle tendons) and focus on the backwards motion. if that's unclear, do this:
    do a forehand hit with full wrist and hold the wrist in that position, i.e. don't recover.
    then as fast as possible, snap ur wrist backwards as though u r performing a backhand/recovery from forehand.
    repeat this doing reps and sets. don't stress your arms too much because it's something that builds over stages.
    wat this is doing is breaking down the forehand into 2 components, a forward wrist and backwards wrist recovery. by holding the forehand, you are putting full emphasis on the backwards motion, thus making it a faster snap. i hope i'm being clear >.<

    another exercise is to do some forearm training but with focus on wrist flexibility. that way, it is easier to snap (faster forward n fluid backward wrist motion) and you will build endurance and tolerance in your muscles to continually snap at a constant speed.

    well good luck and keep practising. =]
     
  3. jchan23

    jchan23 Regular Member

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    hmm i think I get it so essentially, like let's say im driving, then do a stron drive (wrist only) and stop it from recovering then try to pull it back fast
     
  4. Mikael

    Mikael Regular Member

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    Forget the wrist

    First lets be sure that we talk about the same thing concerning the wrist, which is the join between hand and forearm, where the forearm is the thing between the elbow and wrist/hand.

    Now in the book Jonassen et al. have written, he states that the common believe about using the wrist, is an illusion, though a widespread one. The time where we use the wrist for power is over. A little movement in the wrist cannot generate all that power we need e.g. in a smash. And there is risk that you wrist will damage.

    If you need more power spent your time on the rotation movement in the forearm, e.g. by hitting in the air with you cover on the racket. Be sure that you do a Full outer and inner rotation. Second be sure that timing is correct, where in the rotation will most power be generated??? Also make sure you body rotation follows.

    Your goal is, you say, to put on "pressure"!? - And the way to achieve that goal in by a powerful smash!? In "general" the purpose of a powerful smash is to win the rally, when you are in a good position and you opponent is not. Playing against better players it might be difficult to achieve that situation, so make sure to consider your tactics.
     
  5. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    ^ ^ ^

    Pay heed to what Mikael says (above).

    Wrist snap is a very misleading term. The role of the wrist in badminton has been greatly exaggerated for many years (decades). There is some wrist extensions, wrist flexions and other wrist actions employed for various strokes in badminton. However, the extent of these wrist actions are usually much less than many people, even coaches, assume. Many players will often use an excessive amount of wrist flexion in an effort to produce a "wist snap".

    Much of the power on most strokes in badminton will come from rotations of the forearm -- pronation and supination. There will also be some power added by various action of the fingers, usually a squeezing action as the racket head is accelerated forward (or upward). The squeezing action of the fingers ("finger power") will often result in some quick, but moderate wrist action.

    On certain shots, like basic net kill shots, very little forearm rotation might be employed. In this case, more of the power will come from the fingers and some wrist extension & flexion. Most other power shots in badminton will put more of the emphasis forearm rotation.

    As far back as the 1960s, Dr James Poole (one the last world class singles champs from the US), wrote about the over-emphasis of the role of the wrist in badminton. He correctly identified pronation (and supination) as the primary actions for the production of power (speed strength).

    The myth of the wrist has continued to flourish, even today.
     
  6. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Wrist snap is very real. Just have a look at the backhand clear. It is very much dependent on wrist snap. Wrist snap by itself has no power, just like pronation or supination by itself has no real power. Power comes from leverage. You get leverage when you have a swing, big or small. Wrist snap is that last increased speed of the whole process which gives your shot deception, directional change, and sting.
    Top Asian players use wrist snap all the time; westerners less so, but are now using wrist snap.
     
  7. Athelete1234

    Athelete1234 Regular Member

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    Ideally, for me anyways, forearm rotation would lead to some wrist motion. But the key here is that use of the wrist should feel natural, due to the forearm rotation.

    Think more about using forearm rotation, and the "wrist snap" should follow through naturally.
     
  8. DivingBirdie

    DivingBirdie Regular Member

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    i think we all agree on one thing---that it is difficult to isolate different muscle groups in any stroke. A 'wrist snap' can never achieve anything by itself. It is also too subjective to decide whether 'wrist snap' has been exaggerated or not. I remember a thread where we tried to break down 'power' into X% wrist, Y%forearm and Z%shoulders bla bla, and it still turned out inconclusive...
     
  9. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The mother of all power is leverage, and leverage requires movement. A wrist snap without any arm movement is quite powerless; a forearm pronation by itself is even worse. Arm movement such as a swing, big or small, once intiated will now require the forearm to go from flexion to extention, with pronation or suppination as the case may be, together with the cocking of the wrist, as you go for that final stretch. The wrist must be cocked back for all strokes no matter whether great power is needed or not. This is a requirement for deception in badminton. Wrist speed is a speed added to arm speed, an extra, besides deception.
    It is no use uncocking the wrist too early or too late, the added power of the former will be expended before the shuttle is hit; in the latter, it will not have the time to build up maximum effect. The wrist should be uncocked only in the last two feet before the racquet strikes the shuttle. The last one foot of your racquet swing must have a noticeable increase in racquet head speed, relative to the rest of the swing cycle.
     
  10. pHysiX

    pHysiX Regular Member

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    what this all basically boils down to is mechanics in badminton. there is a thread about badminton mechanics. read that as it is the most clear and even proven information you can get
     
  11. Mikael

    Mikael Regular Member

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    First a little correction concerning the reference, I wrote in the book Jonassen have wrote, Sorry I ment Jonas Rasmussen...

    Second stick to the question, the person have a problem about what to improve, and even if a wrist whip would give a tiny impact, training the forearm and body rotation, timing and tactics, would give so much more.

    Third, pHysiX do you have a link for this mechanics stuff? Is there any technical/anatomy prove of this? I would state that for maximum precision and transfer of power the wrist should be locked and only follow the forearm movement...
     
  12. Mikael

    Mikael Regular Member

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  13. Mikael

    Mikael Regular Member

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    Wrist position!

    Well, the thread is pretty long to follow.

    I think that I have found a good way to defend may claim. It goes with the discussion for "optimal wrist position". Now placed your hand in front of you, straight from the forearm, horizontal, with the inner hand towards the floor/ground and the outer hand up, and there is no angle between forearm and hand. Keeping this position, throw the fingers down into for instance a table and let the arm continue a bit, (even doing it in slowmotion, will reveal my point), what happens? Your wrist will whip backwards...

    In badminton precision is important, so we want to lock the wrist, which btw also means that we can transfer as much power as possible. We "lock" the wrist by moving the wrist backwards/upwards or should we say, there is now a little angle between hand and forearm (a bit less than 45 degrees I think). This is the correct position for the wrist. This is a seriously lack in some of the badminton books I have seen so far.

    This is really important because it goes together with the basic grip - when you ask "why" is the basic grip like this, some of the explanation is that when holding the racket just to the right of the body (for right-handed), the rackethead is parallel to the net, but this is only true if the wrist is locked as mentioned above, otherwise the whole concept of the basic grip should be changed.

    taneepak: don't believe the Asian people, they use wrist-whip for everything, even for eating rice I suppose :)
     
  14. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Yes, I believe top Asian players use more wrist. The wrist needs to be cocked back for almost all strokes to preserve the possibility of deception. Smashes are more steep if you use more wrist. All backhand clears require wrist snap (cocking and uncocking of the wrist). The cocking and uncocking of the wrist gives extra wrist speed, very important, for that last stretch before impact.
    I am friends with some ex-Malaysian, Hong Kong, and China (the latter beat Denmark's Sven Pri 15-0, 15-0) national players, and they say that Asians use more wrist. Westerners, until recently, never used wrist but brute arm power. But this is now changing.
     
  15. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Sounds like a highly distorted perception of the manner in which badminton has been played in the West. I have been playing the sport for some 30 years in California. For most of that I time I've been exposed to many high level players trained in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Malaysia, Denmark, Canada, and the UK. I have also played in Hong Kong & Thailand. Yes, there are some differences in style of play in the East & in the West. However, it is not at all as you characterize it -- it is much subtler than this.
     
    #15 SystemicAnomaly, Jul 28, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2008
  16. XtC-604

    XtC-604 Regular Member

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    I say , you get a power trainer racquet IE forza power trainer and do drives for VERY VERY long with a partner= )
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Yes, you are right in that I might have dramatized it too much. What I want to convey is that Asians "worshipped" a strong wrist from the beginning. Westerners with the exception of the Danes did not have such a love affair with a strong wrist, until recently. From the 1940s and even up to the 1970s Asians and the Danes were the only players with strong backhands, which requires an excellent execution of the cocking and uncocking of the wrist in a timely manner. Americans of their period had essentially no backhand.
     
  18. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    This is hardly a new concept in the West. Winning Badminton, written in the early 1950s by Gustavson and Davidson speaks of cocking the wrist for nearly all shots used in badminton.
     
  19. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Can't say that I am aware of the quality of BH strokes of North American players in that time period -- didn't pick up the sport til the late 1970s myself. However, I am aware that a number of players from the US were very prominent in the international badminton scene for the 1940s thru the early 1970s. They must have had some semblance of a BH to compete at that level.
     
  20. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Beating Sven Pri 15-0 and 15-0 :eek: Wow, must be some super player.

    I showed to my coach a book on badminton by an English coach - when the author mentioned in the book 'cocking the wrist', he asked my how I understood the description of the technique. His comment, 'we do things a bit differently'...

    When I learned badminton, my coach did not emphasize the wrist, but fingers.
     

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