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Indian Players Told to Concentrate on Fitness not Super Series yet

Discussion in 'India Professional Players' started by Loh, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    The Hindu

    3 April 2007


    Vimal criticises BAI stand

    Kalyan Ashok
    BANGALORE:

    The former National chief coach U. Vimal Kumar criticised Badminton Association of India's `retrograde' move to stop players from participating in the Super Series events in Singapore and Indonesia, even at their own costs.

    In a chat with The Hindu here, Vimal, who is also a former National champion, questioned the BAI and the current National coach P. Gopi Chand's views regarding `fitness' of players. "When there is no way to evaluate fitness level of players in the ongoing camp at Hyderabad, I fail to understand on what basis players can be stopped from going on their own and asking players to concentrate on fitness, when their rankings at stake, is certainly an unfortunate and retrograde step which would harm their growth", said Vimal Kumar.

    He disagreed with Gopi Chand's view that players could skip Super Series events and still get back into the reckoning. "This is the year for Olympic qualification and they need to play as many Super Series events as possible. Once they start skipping it, they will be forced to compete qualifying rounds and in the current format, a player would end up playing as many three rounds to get into the main draw. It is bound to take a heavy toll", said the coach.

    Individual Game

    Vimal Kumar said that badminton being an individual game, the players should be allowed to train on their own if they wished. "Of course, I am not saying that they should skip the camps if it concerns a team event like Thomas Cup, Uber Cup or Sudirman Cup, but for tournaments such as Grand Prix and Super Series, if they wish to train on their own, please allow them'', said the former coach.

    The BAI decision has affected top Indian players such as singles players — Chetan Anand, Saina Nehwal, Anup Sridhar, Nikhil Kanetkar — and doubles pairs of Sanave Thomas, Rupesh Kumar, Jwala Gutta and Shruthi Kurien, who could have made the main draw on their rankings into the Super Series at Singapore and Indonesia.

    "Someone like Chetan Anand who is in the top 30 of the World cannot afford to miss Super Series and I don't think he needs to prove his fitness for playing the events and as a former player, I know how difficult it could be to get back into the rankings once you lose the position because of non-participation. My advice to BAI and others, would be let them go and why not when they are doing at their own costs", said Vimal Kumar.

    Tough Stance

    He pointed out that during last European tour in March 2006, entries were not sent on time and the players had to suffer on account of that. Vimal Kumar also said that even Gopi Chand had faced a similar predicament a decade ago, when BAI administration took a tough stance on a tour. "But we all backed him'', he added.

    On the decision of Chetan Anand, his wife Jwala Gutta and her doubles partner Shuthi Kuiren to skip Badminton Asia Confederation championship starting in Hyderabad on April 10, Vimal Kumar advised the trio to reconsider it. "Please go ahead and play the tournament and don't precipitate the crisis", the coach said.

    But the onus was clearly on the BAI to sort out the issue amicably with the players, Vimal Kumar said. "If they can't help them, they should not harm them", he added.
     
  2. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    In an interview on www.badmintonsite.com Jwala and Chetan Said themselves they need to play as many tournaments as possible. It seems they feel rankings is more important than improving as a player at the moment.
     
  3. JaCk™

    JaCk™ Regular Member

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    Indian players should take Taufik as example. Ranking is not important as long as you are an excellent player. Look at Taufik, if he is in his best condition, he can beat Lin Dan in straight games (Asian Games Individual Singles Event). No point taking part in SS but unfit. This is what happened to Taufik in World Championship2006.
     
  4. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    but the indian players are not experienced like TH. U can't play like TH if they lack experience even they're fit. It is players like LD should be playing less SS.
     
  5. JaCk™

    JaCk™ Regular Member

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    if the indian players are unfit, no point taking part in SS. they can take part in other open tournaments. maybe the indian players are more concerned about 'face' rather than 'result'. as long as they qualify for world championship and olympics, it is enough. the result is not important. they just want to gain ranking points. in that case, the indian players lack of fitness quality but are just making up the numbers
     
  6. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    Vimal, the former Indian champion and Chief Coach, was reported as asking:

    ""When there is no way to evaluate fitness level of players in the ongoing camp at Hyderabad..."

    So the question of the Indian players' fitness was disputed in the first place.

    Gaining ranking points is important if a player is to avoid the often demanding
    matches in the SS qualifiers and to ensure a place in the main draw. The points are also needed for more important events like the WC and OG. It becomes less stressful for a player if he has already secured enough points for all the major competitions. He could concentrate on preparing himself instead of having to fly all over the place just to participate in some low ranking tournaments to gain more qualifying points.

    Even the very experienced WCH has admitted to this. Of recent past, I could only remember one outstanding player who did well from the qualifying stage (3 matches) to the main draw and even appeared in the finals. He was the younger Simon Santoso of Indonesia during the recent Swiss Open. Simon eventually lost to Chen Jin disappointingly, 16-21, 10-21. Perhaps Simon also felt the strain of having to play three extra matches during the qualifiers.

    Regarding the exposure, I too think it is relevant as players learn on the spot to deal with different players and conditions. I'm sure we have read of even top class players who lost to lesser ranked players at an early stage of a tournament. They still have to learn to cope.

    Whilst the SS ensures a quality lineup, often times one can expect more or less the same faces in the main draw of 32 players. In this sense, it is a bit dull and boring, unless TH turns up and hopefully he too doesn't have to play the qualifiers. New faces, perhaps with the exception of Simon, who can't be considered really fresh, have little or no chance to display their skills in the main draw. :cool:
     
  7. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    More news on Indian players' unhappiness

    Hindustan Times
    4 April 2007

    Badminton apex body and players tussle continue

    The Badminton Association of India’s (BAI) decision not to allow any players to participate in any tournaments, including the forthcoming Super Series events in Singapore and Indonesia, for the next two months is threatening to become a bone of contention between senior players and the apex body.

    The players feel that their absence from the Super Series events could affect their rankings in the Olympic qualification year. It would be difficult for them to recover the lost points in the final stages. As a result, they are preparing to take up the matter with BAI president VK Verma when he visits Hyderabad on April 5.

    The problem started after the BAI executive decided that no players would be allowed to participate in any international tournament — even at their own cost — till the Sudirman Cup in June and should instead attend the training camp in Hyderabad to get fitter.

    The move came as a shock to seniors like national men’s champion Chetan Anand, twice champion Anup Sridhar and women’s doubles champions Jwala Gutta and Shruti Kurien, who were assured of a direct entry in these tournaments. Even the other top players, who were looking to improve their rankings and stake their claim for the 2008 Beijing Olympics, were unhappy with the decision.

    Sridhar, who reached the semifinals of the German Open last month, is likely to be affected the most as he had reached the quarterfinals of the Singapore Open and the pre-quarterfinals of the Indonesian Open last year and could drop down by almost 50 spots in the ranking.

    Verma, along with Pradeep Gandhe, coaching committee chairman, and TPS Puri, BAI vice president and Chairman of Monitoring of the National team in preparation for 2010 Commonwealth Games, is due to visit the elite camp to take stock of the progress and meet the players.

    Sensing that this is their best chance, some of the senior players are gearing themselves up for a hard talk with the officials.

    "We tried our best to convince the officials through written communication. But they did not budge from their stand,” a senior player told HT on condition of anonymity. “We can’t allow them to mess up our career and we will make that clear to them when we meet face-to-face on April 5."

    Gandhe justified the decision of the BAI, saying it was taken after considering the performance of the players in the recently concluded European circuit.

    "The committee felt that the players had got enough exposure but their performance was not up to the mark due to lack of fitness,” he said.

    The former international emphasized that the seniors would be given a patient hearing during their visit to Hyderabad on Thursday. But it is unlikely that the BAI would change its stand.
     
  8. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    BAI refuses to give in

    The Hindu

    Date:10/04/2007
    BANGALORE:

    The Badminton Association of India (BAI), facing dissent from a section of players on the Super Series issue, has refused to budge from its stand.

    In a chat with The Hindu from Mumbai, BAI president V.K. Verma said, "Our stand has been clear from the start. We had asked players to attend a camp for fitness and that takes precedence over other things.

    "The camp has been announced after taking into consideration all factors including Super Series. Missing one or two will not hugely affect a player's ranking when the season is packed with a lot of international events. We view it as mandatory that players in contention should attend camps conducted by BAI specifically for fitness."

    Players' fitness

    Verma said: "World Badminton officials including Mr. Punch Gunalan had expressed concern over the fitness of our players after watching them in the All England championship last year. So what is wrong if they undergo a camp to improve their overall fitness?

    . On players training on their own, Verma said: "I have no objection to that, but how can a doubles pair train separately? How can someone like Jwala Gutta train in Hyderabad and her partner Shruthi Kurien train in Bangalore? Does it make any sense? Let players train under any one, but when they are called to attend a National camp, they better do it."

    Asked if it was right to stop players when they are willing to go and play on their own, Verma said, "When we have made it clear that players can't be skipping camps and playing events, what is the big deal about offering to go and play on their own?

    Meanwhile, Chetan Anand, who was in the eye of the storm, has resigned to the fact that he will have to forego the championships in Singapore and Indonesia.

    Chetan said: "I will have to look at the other events and hope that everything is sorted out and my only contention was that I should not lose points at this stage."

    Playing at Singapore and Indonesia would have enhanced his ranking (cuurently at No.28) he felt. "When I am in a safe zone, points-wise, why should I get into danger zone, by missing events?," Chetan, who has opted out of the ABC Championship, said.

    The former National coach S.M. Arif was disappointed with BAI's view. "I am sad over the developments. Nothing can compensate exposure at the highest level.

    "To keep yourself in contention when you aim to be among the top 30, you cannot afford to miss events. I always believed exposure was the key to excellence. Their right to play should not be denied," said Arif.
     
  9. guttayelan

    guttayelan Regular Member

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    your information

    jame:

    i t hink u know badminton in india is different than that of china, malaysia . korea and other countries..here the players have to study and play at the same time..all indian players are university graduates or engineers..do you know? because if they donot have any basic qualifications and the level of game they can hardly survive in case they fail to achieve in badminton field...

    there are a few players who are dedicate to the game right from the childhood till date..chetan and jwala are dedicate players...to compete chinese and other asian players..they need to train under right coach and do the right excercises..

    they have a great aim to do in this forthcoming olympics for the country..they have spent their life earnings to participate in all tournaments last year to achieve this ranking (28th)..if they are not send for qualifying olympics..how sad they will be..? it is no matter to go for the ranking only...ranking certainly is important for them..falling inthese rankings will be hard for them to achieve again..gopichand knows..they have been obstructed by their association from sending the entries..instead of talking olympics.. the association is talking of only 2010 commonwealth game...

    i think u must be thinking why chetan and jwala are not participating in this camp...?

    they have only one indian coach..who coaches gopi academy as well as indian camp..just now an indonesian coach has come...other coaches in the camp are not qualified caoch including gopinchand himself..

    this is the indian badminton game..

    full of politics and personal gain only..but nothing gain for players..

    how can indain players do better than other country's players? when they have such kind of associaiton and national coach..????

    这就是印度羽毛球永远打不过其他亚洲国家的主要原因!!!
     
  10. guttayelan

    guttayelan Regular Member

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    let me tell you..

    let me tell you..
    do u have any measurement to measure the fitness?
    if chetan and jwala are not fit how can they are ranked 28th in the world?
    while all those who trained at gopi camp cant reach? who are fitter who are not fit? you can judge urself...
    so it is an execuse from their association in order to defame the players..
    th eplayers does loose in the first round..it doesnot mean they are unfit..if they met the world no 3rd player in the first round..do yo mean they will win over him/?if they fail to win them meaning they are unfit?

    lets world judge it..

    here the indian top players only are asking to forward their entries for olympics qualifying tournaments..they will spend their own money to go..why the hell association is denying? absolutely absurd...
     
  11. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I'm sorry that this has to happen, especially when India has recently put up such great shows during the last Melbourne Commonwealth Games and other international tournaments by individual Indian players.

    I hope to watch your top players demonstrate their skills once again in our Singapore Open this May. They have shown improvement over the years. Certainly, young Saina Nehwal, with whom we've come to adore, and your National Champion Chetan and his committed teammates, should be given a chance to earn more ranking points to be sure of a place in the Beijing Olympics.

    Hopefully, differences will be resolved sooner rather than later.
     
  12. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    Former Badminton Players just make Bad Policy Makers?

    I'm sure this is down right generalization but here are a few examples :-

    1) Misbun : Enter players into tournaments and withdraw them at the last minute citing player's commitment issues / fitness as an excuse. Costing BAM coffers $$$ Bling Bling is terms of wasted expenses and fines from IBF (now known as BWF)

    2) Rudy Hartono : Proposed a fail to reach target, ban players for months policy. Something that surely would have sunk even the titanic and maybe provoke a coup de'tat of the nations badminton.

    3) Gopichand : ................what ever was stated lately

    These are some prime examples. Ulterior motives, or just as my dear Prof says : "Never study economics.... sigh..."


    Your guess is as good as mine.

    TBBMBB(N)
     
  13. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

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    To be quite frank, apart from Taufik Hidayat, the difference of level between the top ten batch of players and the players ranking from 21 to 30 is quite big. Heck, any of the players ranked from 11 to 20 would badly surprise me if they can win a tournament with top players such as Lin Dan, Taufik, Chen Jin and etc participating, with the exception of Taufik and Sony ofcourse. Sony only because he seems to be picking up pace now, maybe he has recovered from his injury since 2005.

    My point is, so what if you get more points to qualify for Olympics? You won't quite get there to win it. And exposure? What quality of exposure can you get when your fitness is no good? I competed before, even though not at international level, but I know that I will play a very bad game if my fitness is not up to standard.

    And seriously, if I were to play against an opponent I believe I can never lose against due to his lack of fitness, I would just slack a bit and let him accumulate points while I accumulate points at a faster pace than him. This is to save my fitness and avoid mental exhaustion and also to hide certain key points of my game play from being exposed such as my strengths and weaknesses. Again, bad quality exposure for them.

    I would say it is very wise for BAI to send all of them packing into a fitness training camp. No instrument of measure to see how fit you are? Unnecessary, good coaches and players can see how fit you really are by watching you play one good game to exhaustion. And I don't think BAI haven't seen these players train to exhaustion, and given that Gopi was a former international player, he should know the standards and whether his players are up there to give the top players a good game.

    Here in Singapore the Cheers competition is coming up in less than three months time. What am I doing for my trainees and myself? Fitness!! When Rexy left England and Nathan and Gail were playing in the AE finals, I heard him comment on the Malaysian tv channel that his greatest concern for Nathan and Gail were their fitness. He said that without fitness, Nathan and Gail wouldn't be able to excecute the high level techniques that they have.

    Finally, just an assumption here, what Gopi probably have in mind is that he wants to increase the fitness of his players during the training camp to the extent where they can't be finished off by the top players without playing more seriously. The players would then have a better exposure like they will never have without such calibre of fitness, for the rest of the time to the lead up to Olympics. Then they will have a much better opportunity to do well in the Olympics as long as they maintain that level of fitness.

    There is definetely a conflict of interest here, the way i see it; players are more concerned of the qualifying part than the do well part, while the coach believes that if you can do well, you will definetely qualify. Training camps can't go for long anyway. Also, sorry to say this, but players are sponsored, and I believe that the higher ranked they are, the better paid they are.
     
    #13 Iwan, Apr 11, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  14. guttayelan

    guttayelan Regular Member

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    You Have Underestimated Gopi's Calibre..

    IWAN:

    I MUST SAY YOU ARE WRONG AND UNDERESTIMATED GOPI'S CALIBRE..
    THE MATTER IS NOT SO SIMPLE AS YOU THOUGHT..

    THESE TOP INDIAN PLAYERS HAVE NEVER MISSED A CAMP RIGHT FROM THE DAY ONE THEY ARE PLAYING BADMINTON..WHYAFTER GOPI BECAME THE NATIONAL COACH THEY REFUSE TO ATTEND IT? PLS THINK HARD...

    HE HAS A COACH THERE WHO COACH HIS ACADEMY PLAYERS AS WELL COACHING THE INDIAN CAMP PLAYERS.. CAN U JUSTIFY HOW HE CAN COACH BOTH AT THE SAME TIME? WHERE ARE THE OTHER COACHES GONE?
    THIS PARTICULAR COACH'S CHARACTER IS QUESTIONABLE...ALL PLAYERS KNOW HIS CHARACTER, THIS KIND OF COACH IS NOT FIT FOR COACHING THE TOP PLAYERS..WHILE THE OTHER COACHES DONOT WANT TO WORK WITH GOPI...YOU SHOULD ASK GOPI WHY THEY DONOT WANT TO WORK WITH HIM? AND HE HAS A FEW COACHES THERE WHO WERE THE FORMER PLAYERS , NOT THE QUALIFIES COACHES...AND IN THIS CAMP..NO PROPER INSTRUMENTS FOR DOING WEIGHTS...A PLAYER BROKE HIS ANKLE GOT OPERATED..ONE PLAYER INJURIED BACK..ONE PLAYER INJURIED KNEE..AND OTHE RPLAYER ALSO GOT KNEE HURT..

    PLS SUGGEST ME IF YOU THINK THIS IS FITNESS CAMP?

    ONT HE OTHER SIDE, CHETAN AND OTHER TOP PLAYERS IMPROVED THEIR RANKINGS TO 28TH IN THE WORLD...AND THEY ARE TRAINING WITH INDIA'S BEST COACH MR. ARIF..ALSO WAS GOPI'S COACH...WHY THEY NEED TO CALL THESE PLAYERS TO THE CAMP?

    WHILE INDIA IS NOT ON THE TOP OF THE BADMINTON LIST IN THE WORLD..
    YOU KNOW HOW HARD FOR THEM TO ACHIEVE TO THIS RANK...IF THEY CANT BEAT THE TOP PLAYERS IN THE WORLD..THEY CAN TRY FOR IT..LIKE PRAKASH DID DEFEAT CHINESE PLAYERS..SO THERE IS NOTHING IMPOSSIBLE..

    TO FORCE THESE PLAYERS INTO THE CAMP , GOPI & CO ONLY WANT TO DO HARM TO THESE PLAYERS..THEY DONOT HAVE GOOD INTENTION..

    YOU MEAN TO QUALIFY TO OLYMPICS FOR INDIA IS NOT IMPORTANT?
    IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE PLAYERS FROM INDIA TO QUALIFY..HOW IT WILL BE IF NO PLAYERS FROM INDIA TO REPRESENT OLYMPICS??? A SORRY FOR THE NATION..DONOT YOU THINK SO?

    I UNDERSTOOD ALL WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE WHILE YOU HAVE WRITTEN IN A GOOD INTENTION WHILE GOPI DONOT HAVE..HE SHOULD SWEAR TO HIS GOD TO TELL THE TRUTH TO YOU AS WHY HE IS DYING TO ORGANIZE THIS CAMP?
     
  15. alfa-2

    alfa-2 Regular Member

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    what is Gopi's interest to hurt these players? why would he do such a thing as he is the national coach now. he'll only bring shame to himself.....not only the players.

    unless gopi reli hate all these players n is well prepared to send these players down to hell......if it is true of what u r trying to say here.
     
  16. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Hmmm, from reading the articles(provided by Loh)..

    ..this sounds like a similar occurence, yet on a totally different context, that happened within PBSI & Pelatnas(players):p..I don't really know much of the details, but my hunch is, there could be some misunderstandings involving all parties. Could there be politics in the mixed also??..
    However, IMO, if players are still part of the National team squad, players should abide and follow the National team's coach(es) agenda/rules. If they do not want to follow/abide by the National team's agenda/rules then they could & should go their own separate ways(quit, leave, resign from the National team). Just like what happened recently with Chen Hong, Candra, Sigit and other countless veteran players..
    Lastly, yes, i hope whatever disagreements there are between all parties(BAI and the players/coaches) will be resolved soon..:cool:
     
    #16 ctjcad, Apr 12, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2007
  17. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    guttayelan,

    I understand your concerns, but please refrain from capitalizing your fonts and putting them in red. Capitalizing is equivalent to shouting in a room, it's really irritating and doesn't help to get your points across to people.

    You should also limit your message to the relevant thread rather than repeating your message in other non-related threads. People might read about your opinion but they could also be turned off by your method of delivering your message.
     
  18. alfa-2

    alfa-2 Regular Member

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    can kwun help to turn off the bold n the colored letters?
     
  19. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    turned off the bold and color. but unable to turn off the capitals without a lot of time.

    guttayelan, there is no need to post in bold, red and capital letters. please write appropriately in the future.
     
  20. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

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    Hi Guttayelan, I admit I don't know Gopi personally. However, even if he has hidden intentions such as money, why would he go all out to hijack the whole Indian squad and prevent them from going to the international tournaments? Does he get money if he hijacks them? I don't think so right? Let us say that there is corruption happening, and he can squander the money that was reserved for going to the international tournaments if he held back the players from going, then why would he object to letting the players go on their own?

    On another note, regarding the amount of injuries, sometimes it occurs not because of the training methods, but rather because the trainees themselves fail to take safety precautions. For example, if players are made to run down hill and they do it rushing down without maintaining a good posture, then obviously they are going to ruin their knee.

    And why can't Gopi have ex-professional players as his assistant coaches? There might be an issue of flexibility. Some old coaches may be stern and are unhappy about Gopi being their head coach. Some coach may not even know the game as well as the ex-professional players. So what about it? How about me? I'm a coach here in Singapore, I don't have a coach's certificate, but I sure as hell can coach much better than many coaches here in Singapore. Heck one kid that I've been coaching for one and a half years is now wanted by Singapore's ex-national head coach, and that kid is only 7 years old mind you and he's already wanted to compete against 10 year old boys. My point is, qualifications don't always matter.

    Why can't Gopi manage two teams? Hey, his club may have junior champions in the making, who knows? What if one of them turns out to be a man who can win the 2016 Olympics Gold Medal? Are you going to be responsible if that boy can't win the Olympics Gold Medal for India because Gopi didn't take care of his club simply to satisfy your desire to pay full attention to the national players? The point is, as long as he is giving his best effort to the national team, it should be alright. It isn't as if he's the head coach and he's allowing the players to slack around a bit while he manages his own private club right?

    And I never said that its not important for the Indian players to qualify for the Olympics, I simply said that if they train hard for like three months to improve on their calibre as a player, then they can do better in international tournaments and make up for the lost points. And I think that this is what Gopi is trying to achieve. Which would you prefer, qualify for the Olympics and be able to play a better game, or qualify for the Olympics and play a bad game? Sure, the first option takes greater risk. But then greatern risk invites greater returns as well.

    Here is how I see it, to be able to perform well in the Olympics, your fitness must be of a certain level. However, to be able to play at that level of fitness, you need to spend a certain period of time adjusting to it. One of the simplest example is that when you strengthen up your wrist excessively for two weeks without playing badminton during that time, then when you get back you're going to start hitting lots of outs because you can't control your power. And controlling your strength to your benefit is only one part of it. How about developing your game play to make best use of your new gained physical standard? It is not easy to change a person's game play. One of the hardest to incorporate is playing high quality netshots at rapid speed to the quality of how Chen Hong and Taufik are doing it. One thing is for sure, if you can't keep up with the top players when they play a netshot, most probably they're going to force you into a defensive play. And that is very unbeneficial with the current 21 point system and especially so against the Chinese.
     
    #20 Iwan, Apr 12, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2007

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