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Indonesia Juniors !!

Discussion in 'Indonesia Professional Players' started by fathonezic, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. ebcd

    ebcd Regular Member

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    Thanks

    #Tapatalk
     
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  2. winzerer

    winzerer Regular Member

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    I do hope Indonesia will continuing the double shift from now on till reach senior stage. In facts I still kinda hope player like Apriani and Yulfira Barkah doing double for WD and XD
     
  3. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    I personally do not know precisely on the technical pro-cons of doing double duty.
    I tend to support it solely on the fact that homogender doubles (MD/WD) are valued more than hetero- (XD) due to the fact that they are also contested in Thomas and Uber Cup.
    I just hope that the coaches are not closing the option of double duty on important occasions such as those tournaments,
    while on the other hand keepin in mind that they should also focus on event which they may have better chance of winning.

    Anybody has good review on Yulfira Barkah? I do not see very shiny report on her performances for her to be paired with Nitya
     
  4. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    Yulfira Barkah will doing double duty in next tournament, USM Indonesia IC 2017
    XD with Frengky Wijaya Putra, WD with Nitya Krishinda Maheswari.

    Another new double duty pair:
    XD: Giovani Dicky Oktavan/Vania Arianti Sukoco
    MD: Akbar Bintang Cahyono/Giovani Dicky Oktavan
    WD: Tania Oktaviani Kusumah/Vania Arianti Sukoco

    Source: http://badmintonasia.org/tournament...rs/usm-indonesia-international-challenge-2017
     
  5. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    Does Indonesia Junior having mentality issue?
    The way Indonesia lost at the Suhandinata Cup was showing how their performance dropped drastically under pressure.
    MD and MS exploded after being chased by their opponent and kept being pressurized at the 3rd set (both won the 1st set).
    WD players are afraid to smash and only make drop shots (I am beyond confused on why you even make drop if you are nervous, as drop is more error prone than smash)........

    Does that may explain the blockage of development and translation of junior success to senior? The 'blockage' already happened for some time since Edi Subaktiar junior era now
     
  6. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    It's not dropped drastically because of under pressure situation but it seems the starting point is players selection strategy is vulnerable.

    First, choosing Ribka/Jauza which is have H2H 0-1 (AJC 2017) instead of Agatha/Siti. Susi speculate CHN will give Liu Xuanxuan double duties so does she insisting to choose Ribka/Jauza and hope double duties by Liu Xuanxuan giving advantage to Ribka/Jauza.
    On the other hand CHN team remix their MD and give Fan Qiuyue double duty.

    In this kind of strategy, Rexy is better than Susi. Susi have make a blunder in last Sudirman Cup, make INA losing to IND at that moment because the crucial wrong XD choosen (Tontowi/Gloria instead of Praveen/Debby)

    Second, MD Adnan/Fikri isn't the best pair that INA have and they're not a part of national team. Rehan, Rinov, and Yeremia are national team players. The MD should be better from those 3 players. Rinov have experince in junior circuit (have played in WJC/AJC 2016), why don't he play in that important knockout stage? Rehan/Rinov or Rinov/Yeremia will be more formidable than Adnan/Fikri. And yesterday Adnan become the weaker link. Yeremia/Fikri which have played against Mongolia in the early stage have better performance than Adnan/Fikri. Adnan/Fikri doesn't have any bright achievement yet so far this year. Rehan/Rinov was India Junior GP 2017 champion.

    MS losing isn't exploded after being chased, Gatjra trying to play fast pace in the first game. The opponent read that game plan and change the rhythm and play steadily and comfortable rhythm for Bai Yupeng.

    I'm believe among 3 MD pairs which will play at individual event, Rinov/Yeremia will advance further than the other 2 MD (Adnan/Fikri and Ade/Ghiffari). And also Agatha/Siti and Serena/Pitha will advance further than Ribka/Jauza at individual event.

    There is no blockage of development and translation of junior success to senior. Edi Subaktiar is not the right example to describe whole process which is much better this time than 5-6 years ago.
     
  7. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    well, we know that it was a strategic mistake

    But I was solely referring to each individual performance where MS and MD managed to accelerate first, but then they break down completely after being chased at 2nd game. Is that not a 'break under pressure'? Or can be tiredness... But then that is a lame excuse as someone who plans to be an athlete and means the coaches do not work well to prepare theiir players stamina.

    Well, Edi Subaktiar does not develop much anymore after winning the Junior Championship. So why it is not a right one to showcase 'blockage of development'?
     
    #527 stanleyfm, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  8. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    With so much money, scholarship, infrastructure that Djarum has committed and we still lose?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. badito

    badito New Member

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    strategic mistake and didn't have a fighting spirit.
     
  10. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    For MS lost its due to his opponent changed the rhythm and this will make the favor for his opponent. INA MS could read the game changes by the opponent. From fast into slower pace it shouldn't be stamina problem. Faster pace need more stamina, slower pace need less stamina.

    Both MS and MD aren't the right player/pair to fielded. INA have better option than those MS and MD.

    Yeah, we could mention its a break under pressure, but I would say it better to called they're not capable reading the game of their opponents. So the advantages goes to the opponent knowing which the weaker link, do attacks more on that, and the game changed drastically one way.

    Bad attitude and bad character is categorized as individual problem. No one could change the character unless the players themselves.

    The chances given well, the players refuse the advises. The best sports psychologist and the best coaches will give up unto those conditions.

    If you mentioning blockage development from junior to senior, its means no players develop at all. In fact, more players are still developing.
    A few players maybe not develop, mostly due to injury. The other not developing players are their bad characters destroyed themselves.

    Djarum club is doing good with their players. The problem is Susi Susanti isn't as good as Rexy Mainaky when INA need some strategic issue regarding players fielded. I don't know whether Susi Susanti has ever became a coach before.
     
  11. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    okay, so this may be the right cause. The players are just not good enough yet on strategical battle in a match.

    However it has to be noticed that I use Edi Subaktiar as a representation of the failure of his class (2011-2013 junior players) to perform really well at senior levels. During this period, the players that ever reached the SF of junior world championships are abundant:
    Elyzabeth Purwaningtyas, Ronald Alexander, Selvanus Geh, Suci Rizki Andini, Tiara Rosalia Nuraidah, Shela Devi Aulia, Anggia Shita, Alfian Eko Prasetya, Gloria E. Widjaja, Ronald Alexander, Edi Subaktiar, Melati Daeva Oktavianti, Masita Mahmudin, Kevin Sukamuljo, Ihsan Maulana.

    From these players, it is almost only 5 that has ever start to make a mark, like Edi Subaktiar and Gloria (short time), Kevin Sukamuljo, Anggia Shitta, (and Ihsan ?).

    On the other hand, the players from other countries have start making marks at the age about 23/24 such as:
    Momota, Axelsen, Yamaguchi, Ohori, Sameer Verma, Carolina Marin, PV sindhu, Nozomi, Prannoy, Intanon, Misaki Matsutomo, Lee So Hee, Shin Seung Chan, Chae Yoo Jung, Choi Sol Gyu, Wang Chi Lin, Ng Ka Long, Lee Chun Hei, Yaqiong, Xiaohan, Liu Yuchen, Li Junhui, Sun Yu, Wang Tzu Wei, He Bingjiao, Zheng Siwei, Jia Yifan, Chen Qingchen.

    In fact, I have done a short analysis and Indonesia come up as the 2nd worse in converting these juniors to perform well in senior level (1st is Malaysia, but we can see the Malaysian doing poorly nowadays). Note, I considered them as 'perform well) by reaching the world number 15ish. From these abundant source, and only small amount that can perform well. Assuming many of them as players with poor characters is just a bit too much don't you think? Seems like there is more to that than just individual reason.
     
  12. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    Elyzabeth Purwaningtyas off course she has injured.

    Broader list: Zulfadli Zulkiffli, Heo Kwang-hee, Nelson Heg (Teo Ee Yi's junior partner), Huang Kaixiang, Zhao Junpeng, He Jiaxin (Chen Qingchen's junior partner), Tien Tzu-chieh (Wang Chi Lin's junior partner), Choi Jong-woo (Seo Seung-jae's junior partner), Kim Ji-won (Chae Yoo-jung's junior partner), Lam Narissapat (Puttita Supajirakul's junior partner) - All these players are 2013 WJC medalist
    Xue Song, Hsu Jui-ting, Pei Tianyi, Zhang Ningyi, Busanan Ongbumrungpan, Kim Hyo-min, Lee Min-ji - All these players are 2012 WJC medalist, Huang Po-jui, Lin Chia-yu - All these players are 2011 WJC medalist. More list will be revealed if we put a WJC semifinalist.

    I would say Lee Chun Hei, Wang Chi Lin, Ng Ka Long, Sameer Verma, Chae Yoo Jung, Choi Sol Gyu would be in the same condition with Ihsan Maulana, Ronald Alexander, Alfian Ako Prasetya, Gloria Emanuelle Widjaja, Tiara Rosalia Nuraidah, Shela Devi Aulia, and Anggia Shitta Awanda.

    How about Wang Zhengming, Lin Guipu, Sun Feixiang, Goh Jin Wei's transition into their senior way? It's a rough way too.

    The steps into senior's success maybe smoother if they're a junior champion. But not all junior champions or junior medalist holder have the same achievement in their senior time.

    About Edi Subaktiar, we may not seeing him anymore in the next tournaments. The same also goes to Muhammand Bayu Pangisthu. Some other players expected to meet their end life at national team this year end.
     
  13. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    Well, I did not mention them because it actually is not necessary. But if you insists, check the table below.
    This is the complete data of the conversion rate of the players.
    This include all of the semifinalists. The left row is the SF at junior, while the right row is the number of them who have reached the 15ish ranking in senior.

    upload_2017-10-14_1-35-4.png

    As you can see, Indonesi's percentage is considered on low region within the other traditionally strong countries (China Japan Korea). The number of youngsters are so high at China, so of course even with considerably low percentage it will not be a problem. Malaysia, we know how they perform. We can see how Thailand 'starts' to outperform us (as can be seen in SEA Games, even if Indonesia also sent the main players to WC). The interesting number actually comes from Korea. On the other hand, it can be understandable because Korea actually sort of having the same performance with Indonesia in terms of individual titles at SS and Olympics (but they have just won the Sudirman Cup, eventhough with a lot of luck in it).

    And of course, I only include them who has been inside 15 rank-ish for quite some long time (to be considered as good enough for quite a long time). This eliminates Shela Devi, and similar players, but include the likes of Wang Chi Lin into the calculation. Of course if you can make a better limit between how to look at it in a more accurate way, please do so.

    Anyway, you should not considered Goh Jin Wei yet since she is even still considered as junior now. It is the same reason as I did not include the data of 2016. Because it is too early to judge their performance at senior level. Even the data shows nonoe of 2015 juniors have reached 15 ranks in the world.
     
  14. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    Again, those data seems valid. But then how that table include double pair? Something missing I guess. The pairing in junior and senior probably change around 75% of that pair. I'm believe it should have a critical changes when the pair split into individual records.

    Okay, put Jin Wei out then. I put Jin wei since she was a junior champion.

    As I said before, from those data we could only summarize as "The steps into senior's success maybe smoother if they're a junior champion. But not all junior champions or junior medalist holder have the same achievement in their senior time."
     
  15. Yoji

    Yoji Regular Member

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    It doesnt really matter. Indonesia have Sukamuljo. These MenDouble is horrendous.
     
  16. CIA-99

    CIA-99 Regular Member

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    Wrong post, sorry man.
     
  17. winzerer

    winzerer Regular Member

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    I don't know why I'm not impressed with Cupu, honestly I root and trust more to Ikhsan Rumbay (great power, calm similar to Jojo from the body index),Rehan Diaz (powerful but still quite raw} or Alvin (if he could develop his smash and his power) to step into senior success but still though it is too early too judge.
     
  18. fathonezic

    fathonezic Regular Member

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    As I have said many times in some posts, Ikhsan Leonardo Immanuel Rumbay and Alberto Alvin Yulianto are top talents. I am quite hopeful on them. Ikhsan has the speed, strength, accuracy. As time goes by, he will be better in power and also stamina (one of his worst weakness). He will also improve his attacking variation. Djarum even made a great effort to bring him to be a Djarum player. It's quite rare to see Djarum recruiting a 17 yo player. Soon after signing him, Djarum sent Ikhsan to Peru and Brazil International Challenge/Series. Today, he lost to Takuma Obayashi from Japan. But, I highly appreciate him. He was quite unlucky to lose to the Japanese. His game also show that he has the talent to be there. Takuma is not an easy opponent though. He defeated Lin Dan in an exhibition match. No worry, Ikhsan will learn from his loss.

    And, congrats to Alvin for the win against the Asia Junior Champion, Bai Yu Peng. Today, I saw a different Alvin. He played an attacking game with some good placed smashes. Fast and tricky.

    I hope, both of them can develop well. They are my hope to contend with the Thai sensation, Kunlavut Vitidsarn.
     
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  19. winzerer

    winzerer Regular Member

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    I just don't understand about Ikhsan rumbay lost today, total in control but in the end of second set all of sudden shutting him self down. Probably blockage or stamina issue, but still I don't questions his talents. I am rooting on Alvin Alberto, smart, tricky, fast and on his age still capable to develop of power and aggressiveness. IMHO, too much hype on Cupu, I still prefer Rehan Diaz even quite raw
     
  20. indrg

    indrg Regular Member

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    The Juniors developments are considered a success if they clean sweep all individual events in the end.


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