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Indonesia

Discussion in 'Thomas/Uber Cups 2004' started by Zax, May 16, 2004.

  1. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Ina

    I admit... very sad for Candra. I wonder if now, knowing how things would go, would he have made the same decision to split up from Sigit - given he had the opportunity again to choose?


    And..: What do you all think?
    Does the PBSI have any role in the disappointing performance of the Indonesians?
     
  2. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Sad

    There was nothing greater to see in badminton than the Indonesian doubles, but what happens now? Disappointing results.. And should Hendrawan have played third singles instead of Simon? Can the PBSI change course?

    Indonesia and Men's doubles were the perfect combination but... One gets to fear for the olympics as well after this performance...
     
  3. jkusmanto

    jkusmanto Regular Member

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    The failed of Indo's team is something to do with their doubles.
    The last good pair was Candra/Sigit.
    Now Indo has no more strong pair.
    Even Alven/Luluk has few experience they have many to learn. Maybe 1-2 years leter they will be a good pair.
    The others young pairs also have much to do.
    After Olympic game, Candra, Sigit, Halim, Tri will retire, 2-3 years ahead, Ina just has Alven/Luluk.
    2 young pairs Markis Kidho/Hendra Setiawan and Hendra Gunawan/Joko Riyadi have many to learn.
    Or maybe 2 men from XD joint together : Nova Widianto/Anggun Nugroho

    For single, Indo still has 3 players, Sony, Taufik and Simon. I don't think Wimpie can go farther.
    I don't see another good young players.

    I think Indo has to send more young players to international tournaments.
    Give more chances and opportunities to young players to learn.
     
  4. dronell19

    dronell19 Regular Member

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    I haven't been following badminton prior to this year's TC and was pretty dame shocked when the commentator said of Alven and Luluk as Indonesia's best pair :eek:

    I'd take Flandy/Eng, Chandra/Trikus anyday over them
     
  5. mourits

    mourits Regular Member

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    At the moment, Luluk/Alven rank the highest of Indonesian pairs..
    That's why they are Indonesian No. 1 pair... I think that's what it was suppose to mean....
     
  6. jkusmanto

    jkusmanto Regular Member

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    Actually Alven/Luluk just began their international carrier last year (2003).
    Quite young and have not much experiences.
    They need 2-3 years more, if they will replace Candra/Sigit.

    They are the best of Indonesia according to world ranking.
    They sit in the 7th place, Flendi/Eng in the 8th rank.
     
  7. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Pbsi

    But the question was, how is the role of the PBSI supporting or not supporting Indonesian badminton?
     
  8. jkusmanto

    jkusmanto Regular Member

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    I will blame PBSI for this fail.
    For the 3rd single, PBSI has no choise.

    But PBSI has made a big mistake when they decided to split Candra/Sigit after WC 2003.
    They know that Candra/Sigit was the most creative double, the "best" and the most consistence pair. Every pair in the world is "scare", if they have to against Candra/Sigit.

    Why they choosed Tri Kush ? He is a mix double specialist. Also too "old".
    Yes, he has helped Indo to retain Thomas cup in 2002. But at that moment, Indo had 3 strong singles.

    The other thing has to do with this fail, is corruption.
    If Indo spend its budget for sending more players to international tournaments more often. I think Indo has more experience players than what its has right now.
    We can see that Indo sends few players abroad. Unlike China and Korea or Denmark.

    And also the training policy must be changed.
    Look Taufik. He asks his own trainer and doesn't want to be trained by Joko (head trainer for men single) with his bla..bla...bla... reasons.
    And PBSI agree with him and pull Mulyo back for him. Why ?

    If Taufik was a Chinese player, LYB will kick his ass and throw him a way. :mad:
     
  9. Wizbit

    Wizbit Regular Member

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    I think the mens doubles selection made by the Indons were a bit weird. No doubt the star player in doubles is Candra, however old he is now. The decision to pair him up with Trikus says one thing to me: that Candra is not going to Olympics, and Trikush is getting some first rate experience from Candra, as he is the least experienced.

    Sigit is resting for the Olympics maybe. I feel sorry for Halim though, as he has had to miss out on so much.

    It was Candra's decision to split up the Candra-Sigit pair at the World Champs last year, so he has no one else to blame apart from himself. In a turn of the tables, it is now Sigit who will be competing in the Olympics instead.

    If Indonesia was seriously out to retain the trophy, they should have put Candra and Sigit together as 2nd doubles. Setting aside their differences, I think it would have fueled them to perform better, certainly enough to take apart any Danish second doubles. If not Sigit, then surely his regular partner Halim would have been better than Tri Kush??

    Flandy and Eng have the benefit of experience, but Alven and Luluk have been the recent performers, so they should deserve to go first doubles.

    The third singles was a bit of a burden for Simon, but there is such a gap between the top 2 and the rest that this can not be helped. The experience can only help Simon become a better player in the future, where by 2008 hopefuly he will be within the top 10. Hendrawan has passed his peak, I doubt he could win Simon convincingly and consistently, that's assuming that he is still playing.

    I wrote before that Taufik is an exception. Whether you make for exceptions depends on circumstances. In China there are hundreds of players and more fighting for the chance to represent their country, so one could argue that a player such as Taufik would not be able to flourish as his 'needs' and 'demands' can not be met and his rebellious side subdued, however in other countries the situation is different. However, I prefer Taufik the way he is, which makes him different, rather than some generic robot player that looks to have rolled off a factory production line!
     
  10. Pecheur

    Pecheur Regular Member

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    What you mean like Chen Hong?

    Did I say that? ;)
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Thta's why some players weren't fielded in crucial matches,LYB always tells the press CH is injured.

    I think main reason why players are not sent overseas is lack of money,very few countries can afford to invest in their players with little return, besides the money can always be put to better use.One reason why some countires are successful is because they are willing to spend a lot.
     
  12. abedeng

    abedeng Regular Member

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    Taufik is an exact replica of Malaysia's Misbun Sidek in his playing days. Always wants to follow his own way. The only difference is that in Misbun's time, M'sia did not have credible coaches nor existing players to look up to. He had to learn mostly by himself (so did his brothers Razif-Jalani). When the Chinese coaches came in the late-80s, it was too late to benefit him. Yet it did not stop Misbun from beating Frost, Swie King, Prakash, Han Jian, Yang Yang etc, though not consistently. His brothers did one better, becoming the only unseeded (and youngest) pair to win All-England thus far.

    Anyway, I could not fault Taufik's contribution in this TC (except perhaps taking too long to beat Kenneth Jonassen and losing tamely to Bao Chunlai).

    The less said about Indon doubles, the better. From the way they played, you wouldn't think that this is the same country that produced the superb Tjun Tjun-Johan Wahjudi and Christian Hadinata-Ade Chandra. Even Sigit-Chandra and Ricky-Rexy couldn't quite match their achievements.
     
  13. jkusmanto

    jkusmanto Regular Member

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    "Sad" was the word that I could say when Peter R beat Simon.

    In the Indonesia badminton history, Indonesia never fail to go to final.
    Since the first participation in TC, 1957 when Indonesia did a "Vini Vidi Vici".
    Indonesia always goes to final. But this year ... :(
    This is the worst result that Indonesia has written in its monorial.

    All years long, double is the backbone of Indoensia (I am not discredit single player), but in this TC double was the weak point of Indonesia team.
     
  14. Z1985

    Z1985 Regular Member

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    i guess even if Candra/Sigit is around, the chances are still 50:50 as Denmark MD are very strong. The Sad thing is that INA is unable to find a 3rd singles that can compete with Peter R or the danes' singles. Santoso is surely too young and inexperience... Well, but that may not really be a bad thing. This means the TC is getting more competitive and the next TC will surely be more exciting. The danes victory against Indo may bring other european countries into badminton which is a good thing.. isnt it?:D
    Well of cuz i would support a Asian team. But wouldn't it be more wonderful if the TC would be as popular as a Soccer WC? That would mean that the glory of holding the Cup is much much more then now.. too bad Denmark lose to China.
     
  15. A fan

    A fan Regular Member

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    Not true, in 1988 and 1990 Indonesia failed to go to the final they were beaten by Malaysia in the semis 3-2 in both cases. China won the TC on those years.
     
  16. abedeng

    abedeng Regular Member

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    Yes, and Indonesia "bought" a ticket to 1992 finals by deliberately losing to China in the group match so that they get to meet Korea.

    The gamble didn't work, M'sia still beat them 3-2.

    Fortunately M'sia didn't do the same thing in recent Thomas Cup against Thai. I still have respect for the team even though they lost to Indons. Better to lose with your head held high than to manipulate proceedings.
     
  17. jkusmanto

    jkusmanto Regular Member

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    My apoligize.
    I have corrected about this in the other thread.
     
  18. ant0niu588

    ant0niu588 Regular Member

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    I think one factor that leads to indo defeat is many of the Indo pple are playing for other country. If Tony Gunawan is still in indo, i think the 1st double will still be candra/sigit n 2nd double will be Tony/halim. There are many more indo players playing for other country. Eg. Mia Audina etc,.
     
  19. Z1985

    Z1985 Regular Member

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    well.. that can only be blamed on those corrupted officials in charge of the PBSI. if not, Indon players wouldn't have gone to other countries because of money...

    I do hope it will change soon or else indonesia surely will be lacking players in a few more years to go..
     
  20. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    I don't think it is fair to blame the PBSI and accuse their officials of corruption. At least the PBSI earns the unique distinction of successfully steering Indonesia to more Thomas Cup record wins than all the other countries of the world combined. Now, you don't tarnish such sterling performance and impeccable record with unwarranted charges of corruption. If you divide PBSI's successes by their total costs, they will probably be more cost efficient than many countries.
    Just because you do not see eye-to-eye with the way PBSI manages its finances and management is not an excuse to blame them for everything when things do not turn out well. There are a lot of dedicated PBSI officials, including Rudy Hartono, who serve their country selflessly.
     

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