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Is private training even effective?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by CkcJsm, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. CkcJsm

    CkcJsm Regular Member

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    I mean once you get all your basics down and footwork pretty much down would you really need it? It is mostly just hard work and since they have basics correct would it even help?
    Also I mean private training 1 - on 1 one hour per week.
    I also just met people who send their kids (mostly under 12) to private training just one hour per week; how do they expect their child to get better if they don't practice offcourt? I can understand group lessons and also paying attention to technique or mistakes though.
     
  2. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I would be interested to know what you classify as basics.

    Children are rarely in a position to train 4,5,6 times a week before and after school. At that age, it is also often questionable to make kids play and train excessively. Its very important to be careful with kids development. They are growing, and their bodies cannot necessarily be pushed in the same way as a professional athlete. However, you are right that the more they play, the more they will improve.

    One of the local coaches in our area coaches kids once a week for a 2 hour session and some of these kids are ranked in the top 5 in the country in their age group (under 13s, under 11s etc). Going forwards with these coaches, some of these players have reached the top national level (top 5 rankings). I guess, from my perspective this is probably worthwhile for those kids who are enjoying themselves and playing top level badminton.

    I am not sure if you would consider these things to be worthwhile? But those kids and their parents seem to think so.

    At a higher level (not children), I would question why it could not be beneficial to have a coach to push you to the next level - the game of badminton is far more than just basics. Lets imagine you have a coach who used to play at international level (there are plenty of them around). They know what it takes to succeed at the highest level. They know the physical and psychological challenges you will encounter, and provide a tactical and technical level of experience that I doubt "basics" could include. I would also keep in mind that some coaches have already taken students to the top level, and these coaches are not necessarily former world class players, but they know what it takes to achieve those things at the highest level. I am not sure that many people are capable of reaching this level by themselves without the aid of a one on one coach.

    So, you are not going to learn this from a 1 on 1 coach session? But you would learn it from whom? Fellow players? Group coaching sessions? Or you will figure it out from the "basics"? I guess its possible, but I doubt anything can be as effective as having a dedicated coach whose sole intent is your development.

    What do you think? The above is just my opinion from my experiences. I guess you have some experiences that contradict my own? I would be interested to hear your thoughts!
     
  3. Mario C socal

    Mario C socal Regular Member

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    The top players in the world (in every sport) also have coaches. You'd think after you've already won world championships, you'd at least have the basics down, right? Yet, the top players still have coaches.
     
  4. Jonster

    Jonster Regular Member

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    No one gets the 'basics' down. There is always room for improvement and no one player has perfect skills, enough to eliminate the need for further training. I think private training is an effective method to refine stroke, stroke placement, and perhaps refine footwork.

    With that being said I think private training has many drawbacks but that is separate from your question.
     
  5. AezranHakim

    AezranHakim Regular Member

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    One gets better at badminton from training, if you get a good coach that can plan a good route to train you, it will do wonders... and yes, a excellent sparring partner is a good balance to develop faster :)
     
  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    there are a key factor here.i

    what are you trying to achieve?


    do you want to be a top level A player? or just be able with hang with your friends at the local open gym?

    badminton is a never ending learning experience, you will never ever learn everything. if you have learned everything there is to badminton, then you might as well go challenge Lin Dan. good luck with that!

    so do you think it is worth it to go private lesson? most likely yes.

    are you guaranteed to improve? no. nothing is guaranteed. if you don't practice or you find a really badminton coach, probably you won't improve at all.

    but "most likely" you will improve from private lessons with a proper coach. it depends on what / how he coaches and whether you are hardworking and gifted enough to learn what he taught.
     
  7. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    Hi there Ckcjsm,

    Similarly like any other sports, the process to continuously improve, maintain and progress to the next level of performance will be impossible just through self learning. One may think that by practicing through playing and sparring with a better player as well as diligently studying and critically analyzing all the theory and practical entity there are about that sport can and will provide them sufficient exposure and knowledge on how to become a better player but then, without guidance from a coach, the path to excel as far as if you're serious to improve yourself is concern, will be a slow and perilous journey.

    Even history has shown that in every Mega star there is in any sport, the reason why they rise to the super standard that they have achieved is primarily because of the guidance they received from their own coach......similarly in the world of badminton, Dato' LCW through Datuk Misbun, LD with Tang Hsienhu etc. Obviously, if a world class player STILL humbly needs a coach to continuously guide them then, regardless at whatever level of play that you're currently are or whatever basic knowledge and practical technique you've think you already posses, if you ask yourself whether you seriously want to improve and move forward to a more higher level of play then, having a coach is a compulsory requirement and that why you...or Dato'...or LD........or Roger Federer needs one.

    SS
     
  8. TheSmasherKing

    TheSmasherKing Regular Member

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    i agree with u.1 on 1 training session will need to be combined with quality sparring partner to apply what we practise o learn during training.
     
  9. CkcJsm

    CkcJsm Regular Member

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    Hm..interesting.

    But I think my question was a little misunderstood but it helped me answer questions that I never thought of :).

    I didn't mean that you don't need a coach though; I was also talking about when some parents send their kids to private training only once a week for one hour, would that be effective for the kid or a little bit waste of money. Since it is expensive and they don't practice outside.

    I also wonder what coaches tell players like Lin Dan...
     
  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think you underestimate the kid. Obviously some learn faster than others.

    Whether it is a waste of money is for the parent to judge - obviously the parent thinks it's worthwhile at that particular moment in time. Later on perhaps not.
     
  11. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    1-1 training is best to work on weak areas and the coach focuses on you. Very hard to do this in a group env. I always spar with the coach, shows me the long journey I have ahead :)
     
  12. CanucksDynasty

    CanucksDynasty Regular Member

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    As a parent...I'm hoping my kids will take some interest in badminton. If so...I plan to have them take 1 group lessons and 1 private lessons. The group lessons so that they can play with other kids their age (more fun and make some new friends). The private lessons so they can get better quicker (hopefully).

    Money well spent?? Don't know. At least I'll be keeping them active and fit. Hopefully steer them away from the bad stuff (ie. drugs, gangster friends, etc...).
     
  13. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Whether you can improve with coaching?

    .
    I am a full-time professional Badminton coach. And here are some of my vews; :):):)

    * A coach is to teach and to provide info.
    * A trainee is to learn from the info gathered.

    Whether a coach can help you with the coaching, it depends on how the coach explains the info to you (the why and the how).

    Whether you can improve with the coaching, it depends on how well you use the info (understanding the methods on how to do them and then work hard on them).

    Ask yourself why do businesspeople attend business courses. Why not learn by doing business by trial and error?

    Ask yourself why do students ask for private tuition for their their school/university work. Why not work harder by spending more time studying books by oneself?
    .
     
    #13 chris-ccc, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  14. AezranHakim

    AezranHakim Regular Member

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    This sums up your question my friend :)
     
  15. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Now, go and do your drills... lol. ;)
     
  16. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    a private coach can tell u what u are doing wrong and tell u what u ought to do.

    but a coach cannot change u without a tremendous effort on your part.
     
  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    In response to your question about Lin Dan:
    It is my experience that top level coaches to professional players (like Lin Dan), are usually employed more for their psychological expertise (tactics, dealing with pressure, dealing with different players/conditions etc). They are the ones that can help players peak mentally for the biggest tournaments and matches. I have observed that this is common across many sports, when coaching at the highest level.

    Once you are as technically gifted as the professionals, it now comes down to applying your skills to beat your opponents point after point, match after match, week after week. At the top level of sport, I do not think anyone has any shots or skills that are just "too good". I think players are all fairly equal in their technical shot making ability, but what separates them are their on court performances.

    I always enjoy re-watching the match by Guatemalan player Kevin Cordon in the world championships vs Chen Long. There is no way he should ever have won, but on the day he applied his skills far better than his opponent. However, that doesn't mean he has more skills or better skills than Chen Long. He just played a smarter match.

    What do you guys think about this? Is high level coaching more psychological than technical?
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it is both.

    even the top players don't have all the skills, and even when they have the skills, they can achieve a higher level of proficiency on it.

    eg. i am sure WSX can smash and attack, but her attacking ability is far inferior to some of her peers. she can use some coaching and practice in that regard. a good example is Gong Zhichao, she used to be a purely defensive rally player, at one point in her career, she started focusing more on offensive and in the end when she won the Olympics, she is much more rounded player with excellent attacking as well as rally abilities. those can only be attained from a technique coach.

    teams have both technique and strategy coaches to focus on different aspects of the game.
     
  19. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    Why does Lin Dan need a coach? Because no human being is perfect. There is always something you can do better. Even for Lin Dan. And only a private one-to-one coach will focus specifically on your imperfection.
     
    #19 pcll99, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  20. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    You are of course correct.

    As you said WSX can probably smash and attack as well as anybody, but in actual match play, her decision making and general "go to" tactics probably don't lend itself as naturally to an offensive style of play as some other players on the tour. Thus, when the coach reflects with the player that she needs to start playing a more attacking game, the coaches job is now to help that player work those skills into their game, as well as refining them where possible. However, I believe the psychological challenges and changes would be more difficult than the technical ones.

    I am sure there are exceptions, where a player has to be taught a completely new shot, but I still feel the mental aspect is the more important for a top level coach.

    I guess in my mind, when I think about a coach coming to a player they are working with and lining up the style changes that they feel are necessary, I would expect the player to be able to do everything they are saying already, but they will now teach that player some new/better/different ways to apply these tactics. As the player keeps practising, they will get better at their new drills and skills, but I do not think there will be much of a technical input from the coach. I guess I think the coach is there for determining the "where and why" of the skills, rather than the "how" (at the top level).

    Anyhoo. These are just my musings and you have already given an excellent counterexample above regarding Gong Zhichao :) I don't know of that player by the way...
     

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