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is this considered distracting?????

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by ilostmybrain, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. ilostmybrain

    ilostmybrain Regular Member

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    Okay, sometimes when im filled with confidence/adrenaline and im about to give a powerful smash or something like that, i give a yell, and most of the time, it goes in, the last last last game i played, the guy i was playing with says i was cheating because it *distracted* him and he called a *redo*

    so is it considered making rude noises, distracting etc
     
  2. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    It shall be a fault

    .
    Under Law 13.4.5 (Faults Laws):

    It shall be a fault if, in play, a player deliberately distracts an opponent by any action such as shouting or making gestures.
    .
     
  3. canti

    canti Regular Member

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    in other words no you're not doing anything wrong. its like grunting in tennis. If you're like screeching and then smashing maybe... lol
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    If an opponent is distracted, it's a disadvantage to him/her

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    It is a fault. If an opponent is distracted, it's a disadvantage to him/her.
    It's clearly stated under Law 13.4.5 (Faults Laws):
    It shall be a fault if, in play, a player deliberately distracts an opponent by any action such as shouting or making gestures.

    It's just that many opponents do not complain.

    Even in Tennis, there is the hindrance rule. Here was what Martina Navratilova said:

    "I remember how it was when Monica (Seles) and I were competitors and she began to grunt."

    "I couldn't hear the ball. I thought to myself, 'Do I mention it to the umpire, do I say something to her? What should I do?' And Monica was a friend. I had to say something in the end."

    The grunting dispute with Seles began in 1992, with Navratilova complaining there was more to it than merely irritating the opposition.

    The sound made by the strings of a racquet striking the ball gives the skilled player an important clue about the speed and spin of the ball they are about to face. Drowning this sound out with a loud grunt denies that information to your adversary.

    "A player is in a difficult position because if they make too much of a fuss, the crowd can turn against them,” she said. “It is the umpires who have to act because if they start enforcing the hindrance rule and give point penalties, it will soon stop. The grunts are louder and lasting well into the opponent's strike zone."

    Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/tennis...-grunters-cheats/story-e6frfkyi-1225721024611
    .
     
    #4 chris-ccc, Jan 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  5. alexh

    alexh Regular Member

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    Myself, I think coloured fonts are distracting ;-)

    I don't think it's so cut and dried. The key word here is "deliberately".

    Suppose that in a doubles match you shout "Yours!" to tell your partner to play the shot. Suppose the opponent says they found it distracting. You shouted, and that's forbidden by law 13.4.5, so they say. Does it count as a fault? I don't think so, because you weren't deliberately distracting them. Calling out to your partner is a normal part of the game, and your opponents just have to learn to deal with it.

    If you shout as the opponent is playing their shot, then it's hard to argue that you had any reason for shouting except to distract them. Therefore it probably should be a fault.

    If you shout while you're playing your own shot--it seems to me that there's a grey area here. You could claim that you're doing just what helps you play a good shot. You're not deliberately distracting anyone else. But really it's up to the umpire to judge whether they think you're deliberately trying to put the opponent off their game. I don't think it would be an easy decision to make.

    Personally I think it's a bit silly to be shouting all the time when you smash. But I think it's just silly, not illegal.

    (You could try to "set up" the opponent by shouting on all your smashes, then change your tactics and shout on a drop shot instead. That really would be distracting--I'd call that a fault! I think it makes a difference whether or not your behaviour is consistent.)
     
  6. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Cheating because it is distracting

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    We are going off-topic. :p:p:p

    ilostmybrain was asking:
    And the opponent is correct.
    .
     
    #6 chris-ccc, Jan 2, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
  7. ilostmybrain

    ilostmybrain Regular Member

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  8. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    I disagree Chris, the rule is carefully worded to include "deliberately". Can a shout be distracting? Definitely! Is it deliberate? That's up to a judge/umpire to determine in a tournament. It's not something I would complain about in a social game, the only thing you get in winning is pride or social standing.

    If they had wanted to include any distracting noise that either player can make then they would not have worded the way they did. Take out "deliberately" and you're right, include it and you're in a grey area that should NOT matter in social play.
     
  9. AMD64

    AMD64 Regular Member

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    It is your shot. I believe you can do what ever you want to help you want to help your shotmaking. By shouting it gives some people more focus and energy. But if they shout when opponant is about to hit than it is distracting. It is part of the game because a lot of it is mental and if you can intimidate your opponant with your powerful smash and shout adds to it. You might drop too instead of smashing next time you yell. It adds a lot more deception and it is part of the game. Just because your opponant doesn' t shout doesn' t mean you have to do it too. I seen the pros shout all the time when they hit a shot and the officials never ever call it as a fault.

    It is not a fault if the bird is on your side of the net.
     
  10. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    The word "Deliberately" is included in Law 13.4.5

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    Agree. The word "Deliberately" is included in Law 13.4.5.

    Our ilostmybrain says "im about to give a powerful smash or something like that, i give a yell".

    This can be distracting to his opponent. And his opponent can claim that ilostmybrain is deliberately distracting him/her, even though ilostmybrain wasn't meant to do so.
    .
     
  11. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    What about when you shout to reach a shuttle that appears to be out of reach. Is that considered a foul ? I don't see how making a noise on a shot is a foul. If making a noise to cover up a shots sound is a foul then what is deception ? Isn't that the same principle except you don't make a noise instead use your racket
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    It's all about "fair play" for players on both side of the net

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    That's different from the opening question asked in this thread.

    IMHO, if opponents are not distracted, it should be OK.
    It's all about "fair play" for players on both side of the net.

    In this thread, we have to keep this in mind: We are talking about 'distracting' shouting. We are not talking about all different types of shouting.
    .
     
    #12 chris-ccc, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  13. alexh

    alexh Regular Member

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    But that's the whole point: who's to judge what is distracting? If you automatically get a point every time you say "I found the opponent's behaviour distracting", then that is a recipe for chaos. Anything you name may or may not be distracting, depending on your point of view.

    That's why this word "deliberately" is so important. Person A does something, person B claims to be distracted. Whether or not B genuinely was distracted isn't the issue here. The umpire is supposed to judge whether A was trying to distract B. It's a subtle distinction, but I think it's important.

    To make sense of this, we need to consider a number of different situations and compare them, in order to see what is reasonable. Shouting "off-topic!" any time someone tries to put the issue in context only makes it harder to figure out what this rule means.
     
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    ilostmybrain has distracted his opponent

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    IMHO, based on the opening post of this thread,
    ilostmybrain has distracted his opponent.

    We can create different threads for different situations about shouting/distraction.
    .
     
    #14 chris-ccc, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  15. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    I think that's just another way of putting off your opponent psychologically, ie.. like questioning his serve. Smashing while shouting is normal since a smash is physically exhausting, badminton can be pretty noisy at times even though I am sure you can find players who don't yell while they play a stroke. It would be delibrate distraction when the shuttle is not even in your court and you shouted something that would delibrately confuse your opponents while they play a shot. I doubt umpires would apply Law 13.4.5 liberally.
     
  16. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Talking about noise that could cause distraction to opponents

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    Correct. In this thread we are talking about noise that could cause distraction to opponents.

    We are not talking about;
    * Yelling - to add more power into a shot
    * Yelling - to communicate with partners in a game of Doubles
    * Yelling - when under tremendous stress to reach the shuttlecock
    * Yelling - when in agony or pain
    * etc, etc, ...
    .
     
  17. ilostmybrain

    ilostmybrain Regular Member

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    actually, i forgot to say that i was yelled to put more power into the shot but the guy said i was distracting him
     
  18. hellopanda3

    hellopanda3 Regular Member

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    It was obviously distracting for your opponent, but it's part of the game. It's not likely you were grunting (or screeching for that matter) as loud as Maria Sharapova. A subtle to medium grunt is pretty acceptable to most people.

    I would deem it a fault if it turns out like this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1DJBh6GZ8
     
  19. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    If your opponent says "Please stop yelling*, then please stop yelling

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    Looks like you guys are pretty serious in playing to win. It's the same as not wanting to lose.

    If not, then be considerate. If your opponent says "Please stop yelling*, then please stop yelling. ;)
    .
     
    #19 chris-ccc, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  20. AMD64

    AMD64 Regular Member

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    Who are they to tell you to stop yelling. I find it a bit rude. It is part of the game. If the bird is on your side and you want to yell to make a power shot, than yell. The pros do it all the time and nothing is said. Your opponent is in fact changing the rules to their benefit. Some people don' t want you to be energized for the game. This makes them nervous and they can' t handle it.

    The same rules apply to the pros as the amature games. I don' t see officials calling the foul so why should this amature decide that its a foul. You should watch Nova Wadianto playing mixed and listen to him when he smashes. Noone is even contesting the fact that he is shouting for this power shots.
     

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