Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

it's all in the wrist, but how?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by jerby, Dec 2, 2006.

  1. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,040
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    EU
    Hi all,

    was just watching PG vs TH -from what I think is the 05 surdirmancup-
    and it's really weird to see their strokes are so different...their 'hitting style'
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    and I threw in LD for the mix...

    what I see is Peter uncocking his wrist to the extreme (like when you do the "bla bla" sign, or try to make a fist-puppet in front of a flashlight :p ) before he hits as in the picture.
    while Taufik has a very relaxed looking uncocked wirst until he hits...
    LD seems 'mediocre' holding a reasonably taught wrist when he smashes...

    is this a difference in training? personal-technique? I find it really intriguing, but I can't make anythign out of it...(and I wouldn't know what to search for in the forums...)
     
    #1 jerby, Dec 2, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2006
  2. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
    Brand Representative

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    12,375
    Likes Received:
    43
    Occupation:
    DCBadminton Racket Developer
    Location:
    dcbadminton.net
    The answer: yes. :D


    I know, a lot of help I am. Hey, it's 3:45am here. :p
     
  3. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,040
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    EU
    I didn't expect you to say yes....
    when I saw "dinkalot replied" I expected a "you use your wrist for badminton? why?"

    but thanks for answering my complicated bio-mechanics question on such short notice;) :D
     
  4. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    4,360
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    In my view, this difference in preparation between top players indicates that the initial position of the wrist is not so important.

    I believe what really matters is that the wrist is relaxed during the swing, so that it can transfer power from the arm muscles. If the wrist is locked or if you try to use it too actively, then you can block the kinetic chain.

    I teach a neutral wrist position for smash prepartion, because I believe this is the position which most encourages the player to keep a relaxed wrist. All the other positions are fine too, however, so long as you relax before you hit.
     
  5. jas1121

    jas1121 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2005
    Messages:
    407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Anyone seen the way Lin Woon Fui of malaysia smash? I find it quite weird something like Zhang Jun's style too. so i guess everyone has thier own style.But my favourite is of course Lin Dan's eventhough i am not really a big fan of him.
     
  6. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,121
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Ottawa
    There's a quality that I call "hand reactivity" which involves both the efficiency with which you can transfer fast arm speed to the bird, as well as the power that can be generated when contact time is low (such as the return of a hard smash).

    This quality involves being able to quickly transition from a relaxed state to a state of maximum tension in reaction to contacting the shuttle.

    I know some people with a terrific first part of the stroke, but lack this reactive ability on contact. The result is that the shuttle leaves the racquet without as much pop as you would expect from that initial speed. I also know some people with rather ugly looking strokes, but you can hear the better contact, and see the bird leaving the racquet at a faster speed despite the slower windup.
     
  7. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    6,527
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Designing and producing quality feather shuttlecoc
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Simply put, in one case some of the power is lost to do other things, and in the other case more of the power is used to send the shuttle away. Sound is a good indicator of shuttle speed.
     
  8. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,040
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    EU
    sound is a good indicator on how well the shuttle was hit...for smashing a deep boom/crack sound 'assures' you hit the shuttle square on, for slices a *whiff* sound does the same...

    how loud the sound is doens't mean anything, because with my bg66 the sound is incredible, but I don't smash harder than some bloke who just uses bg65, and he really hits bombs...some peer of mine hits just as hard but it sounds very dead....because he uses this old cab with older strings, he smashes just as hard though...
     
  9. smashmouth

    smashmouth Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    banker
    Location:
    Manila
    Interesting .... sounds like the philosophy behind Bruce Lee's one-inch power punch.
     
  10. yy_ling

    yy_ling Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Singapore
    after i went for a day of coaching i realised that its abuot coordinated movements of the body and arm to achieve maximum power with minimum strength exerted, especially when you hit hard and you sort of swing your body a bit, it helps to generate more power. most of my friends think its all in the biceps and stuff, my friend who does weight training very often cannot pull off a good smash, because he uses his biceps to exert strength in which he cocks his arm
     
  11. Iwan

    Iwan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    1,874
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore
    Here's my 2cents :) When it comes to smash, the body rotation, abs, chest, shoulder, tricep and wrist is important. Some may think wrist does not play such an important role, but what I find is that, if your wrist is weak, most probably it is going to give way when you make a strong contact with the shuttle. This can also affect the steepness of your smashes.

    Another reason for having a strong wrist is to be able to play shots mostly with your wrist power and conserve your shoulder power. Not only does this help you to conserve energy for when you need to excecute powerful smashes, it also helps you be more deceptive as the movement of the wrist is more compact compared to the movement of the arms. The way this works is that you can swing your arm more relaxed as if playing a dropshot and punch the shuttle with your wrist at the last minute to perform an attacking lob.

    Finally, when in desperate situations where you need as much power as you can to lob the shuttle high and you are in a position where your body is in a position where the shoulders and body rotation is jammed to perform a powerful lob, wrist power really helps.
     
  12. yy_ling

    yy_ling Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Singapore
    lol Iwan you elaborated my post
     
  13. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,121
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Ottawa
    The sound difference is not the same as when you slice the shuttle, which has that brushing or zipping sound.

    Instead, what I describe is a briefer and more distinctive sound at contact, as opposed to the more muffled sound that you get with poor reactivity.

    Finally, things like the string type, string tension and racquet design do have an effect on this attribute, because they affect the reaction forces that occur between the hand and the racquet.
     
  14. yy_ling

    yy_ling Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Singapore
    smashing gives a solid sound
     
  15. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    19,144
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    u.s.a.
    ..i've gotta agree with this...esp. on the racket's characteristics (ie. stiffness of shaft etc.)..From what i read in another source, stiffness of a racket plays hand in hand with how strong the player utilizes his/her wrist:
    - Medium stiff (flexible) : partial energy transfer from wrist
    - Stiff (limited flexibility) : limited/almost full energy transfer from wrist (most pros)
    - Extra stiff (minimum flexibility) : maximum energy transfer from wrist (most pros)
     
  16. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    6,527
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Designing and producing quality feather shuttlecoc
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Sound as an indicator of shuttle speed is applicable to the same racquet, string and tension. For example, if you return a smash with a bigger swing of the arm vs returning it with less swing but with a sharp wrist snap, the latter has a more compact and sharper sound and the shuttle travels faster.
     
  17. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,040
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    EU
    brush, zipp, whiff...also depends on the type of slice..if you slice really hard, with minimal contact on the bird, there's a zip/whiff...
    though if you slice a bit less the sound become a bit more like a normal hit, with a brush...
    sound is hard to explain in letters;)

    Taneepak, yes indeed, that's quite logical/obvious...but that's just 'standard' technique...isn't it?

    YY_ling, :confused: are you workign on your postcount or something?
     
  18. yy_ling

    yy_ling Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2006
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Singapore
    no im not lol, why would you think so
     
  19. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Messages:
    4,040
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    EU
    :p because you said, and I quote "smashing gives a solid sound"...wich I found funny because:
    a) it's a weird discription, how can sound be solid?
    b) if you meant smashes give a "boom" type sound then it's funny because it's a "thank you captain obvious" type o post...
    c) it made me realise how terribly of topic we're drifting...

    and it also caused em to check my post/day count...wich I found..worrying...
     
  20. hiroisuke

    hiroisuke Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2006
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    California
    (a) Technically, it sound can't be solid...but I get what he means.
    (b) True, quite obvious.
    (c) Yes, we are.

    What's so worrying about your post/day count? Too high or too low?

    But back to the subject, you can't have your wrist too flexible, as some people may not force the birdie enough as a result, by which I mean that they may not have a solid smash. This may result as their wrist is giving too much leeway to the birdie, meaning that more energy is transferred against the direction of the smash, counteracting the force, which I think Iwan already said in a different way. But in general, I do agree that we should be relaxed before, and momentarily stiff (in the arm, being that the energy should already be transferred to the wrist, then racket?).
     

Share This Page