Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Ko Sung-hyun

Discussion in 'Korea Professional Players' started by weewee, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    there's a simple solution:
    1. the players need to form a 'professional badminton players association'... this should be easy since there's already an athlete's commission.
    2. bwf needs to start accepting entries from the 'professional badminton players association'
    a korean court's decision will have no jurisdiction over bwf. for now ko sung hyun's only hope is for a korean court order requiring kba to enter all independent players regardless of age.
     
  2. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    HK
    Points 1 and 2 are very good, but demands quite a cooperation between the players.
    For Ko, I was thinking precisely that. If some nations's court can force their national associations to let the players freely registrar for tourneys as independent players, then all is good. But the fight would have to be fought by every country, with different outcomes of course as legal systems differ.
     
  3. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    first step is for a small group of people to administer it: players, non-players or a combo of both. it would have to be volunteer at first since there's no money to start it. players would pay small membership dues, which would pay the salary of the small staff.

    you wouldn't need more than 5 people, not all of them required to be full time. what would the duties be?
    • submit player entries on time
    • apply for visas on players behalf
    • recommend nearby hotels to the venue
    • it wouldn't even require formal office space
    since players pay no entry fees (except in their home country) there's no money to handle on a player's behalf. this should eliminate 99% of the player's fear in having someone handle your paperwork. it's no extra work for bwf either. bwf only has to view the players association as another member association.

    players (who can afford to or already pay their own expenses) would be free to quit their nat'l associations.

    damn, this sounds really simple. i'd seriously be up for helping this get off the ground. why haven't the players lobbied bwf for this? or have they? i get that players won't have time to administer it, so that's where i/we come in.

    i have the time and do not require to be paid. hmmm...
     
  4. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    HK
    Go for it! But national teams might obstruct
     
  5. SolsticeOfLight

    SolsticeOfLight Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    155
    Location:
    Belgium
    I'd help ... Though I'm not sure how.
    First petition would be to BWF, so at least the issue should be recognised, even if the member associations don't like it.
     
  6. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    correct. it's up to bwf. member associations do not make the rules because bwf owns the tournaments.

    i'm going to contact the chair & vice chair of the athlete's commission.
     
  7. Forestal

    Forestal Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2015
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    174
    Location:
    Singapore
    For goodness' sake, the reason why BWF and many international sports association (FIFA, ITTF, etc) works through national associations is because EVERY nation/ community/ association will have their own politics-- and BWF doesn't want to and shouldn't have to deal with it or the players directly.

    There are dozens of amateur league and/ or regional club systems in every nation where badminton is popular-- where is it going to end if BWF has to accept/ deal with non-national/ official badminton association or players directly? All the badminton "powerhouse nations" have this problem because of their wealth of talents/ resources and how well each of them deal with it determines how successful/ popular these "powerhouses" are.

    As it is, BWF is pretty open to independent players barring those switching countries, etc.(BWF doesn't really care whether the national association makes applications/ entries for "independent" or "national team" players)-- it is up to the particular national association to decide what to do and their players/ fans to make their national associations do it.... it is a fact of human society that governing bodies are a natural monopoly; and if you don't check or control them, then they will just "go their own way".

    Why do you think take Ko is taking legal action? And instead of supporting him and pressuring the national association, you are going for a "2-state solution" within South Korea?

    CHN is beginning to "pay" for the bad management of their players and their national association; and INA is still "paying" for this...
     
  8. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    which is the point of a players association. the independent players association would act like, and be treated like, all the current member associations. i cannot put it in simpler terms.

    i understand your points of contention, but, you haven't made a case for not allowing an independent players association.

    badminton is an individual sport, yet it can have team events... like tennis. comparing it to team sports is not a proper analogy. a goalie cannot enter the world cup by himself, even if he's the world's best goalie.

    should 'retired' players like ko sung hyun, lee yong dae, hendra setiawan, etc. have to belong to a nat'l association that controls their every move in order to continue a career in badminton?

    what about current and future players... should they have to 'play their way onto a team' and then be controlled by that team in order to pursue a career in badminton?

    over 95% of badminton tournaments are staged as individual events. other than thomas cup, uber cup, sudirman cup, continental championships and sea games the other 100+ tournaments each year are individual events. there is no team score for the most important events: olympics, world championships, all england, denmark open, china open, ss finals, etc... so other than paperwork, why does the team mandate exist?

    i'm not advocating for the elimination of nat'l associations. it would be business as usual for them to own and control the players who choose to join them.

    hell, bwf is always looking to accept new nat'l associations from up and coming badminton countries, so how would admitting an independent players association be any different than admitting a new nat'l association?
     
  9. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    HK
    Tennis is certainly the model here. But a problem I see is that BWF is governed by a board of directors representing different national associations, isn't? So how a rule actually undermining the national associations could be voted for by them?
     
  10. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    initially a nat'l association might see it as counter to their own interests, but it actually isn't. for them to view it that way is short sighted.

    how dominating can an independent player/pair become without the long term support & training of a nat'l association? it would be rare for the foreseeable future. would there be a lcw w/out bam? a lin dan w/out cba? doubtful. who would have groomed them and paid for everything on their way to the top?

    on the 'retirement' side how long could an ex-association player continue to dominate without the infrastructure & financial support of a nat'l association? not long at all because being an independent player is expensive and energy/time consuming.

    it would be business as usual for the sport of badminton even if a players association existed.
     
  11. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Messages:
    2,837
    Likes Received:
    272
    Location:
    HK
    I think one way to get the support of the national associations is to insure the registration of independent players to tourneys would not limit their own quotas. For example, if LYD and Ko register as independent players forming two different pairs, Korea, as a national association, would still have the same number of slots for their own MD.
     
  12. samkool

    samkool Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    511
    Occupation:
    too pre-occupied to work
    Location:
    the next superseries tournament
    Only WC and Olympics have quotas. Look at the draws of any other tournament, the qualifying rounds are jam packed with locals.
     

Share This Page