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Kudos to the Korean

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by AlanY, Aug 14, 2012.

  1. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    There always has been legitimate walkovers. Generally they are due to having an opponent fall ill before the match or have to retire during the match as they are unable to continue. Seriously? You were unaware of this?

    So? What's your point? What were the circumstances of the WO? Was it given due to injury or illness? Was it given to manipulate a draw or give a player an unearned advantage or benefit. If it was a case of an illegitimate WO, does that somehow justify all others who do so?

    I see attempting to explain anything about this to you is as about a productive use of my time as trying to teach a goldfish calculus.

    You don't think so, but what do the officials responsible think? If they were found to be in violation of the rules then yes I would call them cheaters. If LCW was to publicly comment that he purposely gave the WO and faked the injury then yes I would call him a cheater.

    The logic behind which is that they were found to be cheating. <--- I hope that logic isn't to subtle or profound for you to grasp though you've done nothing to justify any optimism on my part.
     
  2. HiddenPower

    HiddenPower Regular Member

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    It’s obvious you have fallen from your high horse. LOL

    If it’s not called by BWF, so it must be “legitimate”? Both WO in my example didn’t happen too long ago, go back few posts and look it up yourself. It’s certainly not the case like someone got an ACL or got really sick before a match and had to call it off. When there is a WO not because of serious injuries or sickness, it’s not so different than the WO we saw in Olympics. You certain don’t need BWF to tell you if it’s a WO or not! Or if it’s a “legitimate” WO or not! (Hello~! Not “giving best efforts” by BWF standard!)

    Anyways, I will stop here. I’m tired of this BS, and not to mention about your personal attacks. You’re nothing but a hypocrite.

     
  3. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Ahh,friends,give the 8 ladies a break. They have paid a heavy price of Olympic DQ and suffered humiliation,the least we could do is not to add insults to their injuries by calling then cheats (remember Greysia Polli's plea). For that unfortunate incident,the players bore the brunt of the punishment, enough is enough.

    Give them a chance,everybody deserves it, and move on. Personally, I look forward to their return.:)
     
  4. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Many spectators want to watch 'good' matches; They don't even care who will win

    .
    Agree. We should give them 8 players a break.

    From what I have read, most BCers who stayed at home to follow/watch them play have forgiven their mistakes.

    I beleieve only those spaectators who have spent thousands of dollars (to travel from all around the world) and/or who have paid for their expensive court-side tickets to watch them play, are the ones less forgiving.

    BTW, many spectators want to watch 'good' matches; They don't even care who will win.
    .
     
  5. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I think this specific subject could have been put to bed a long time ago but their are people still refusing to believe that
    1. cheating did occur
    2. It was very bad for the sport

    There are a lot of people dragging this out claiming there was some sort of honor in deliberately losing for a favourable draw and that BWF made me do it.

    Saying all of this I still feel for the players even though they did cheat. I think they were terribly misguided individuals, like lambs to the slaughter basically.
     
  6. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    While I've said repeatedly that the 8 WD players cheated and deserved the DQs, I also believe all punishment for the players should have ended there. The DQ is ample punishment. I don't like the Korean association's action here.

    I think it is the BWF who should be investigating the teams and handing out suspensions or bans. I don't like the idea that the national associations, who may the ultimate source of any pressure to throw matches, are punishing the low level actors. I also don't like the fact that so far it is only the Korean coaching staff that is facing severe punishment.
     
  7. Fortune

    Fortune Regular Member

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    2 out of 4 pairs has big chance to win Gold medal. Being disqualify from the Olympics is more than enough to punish them.
     
  8. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    May I tell them don't enter those tournaments

    .
    Think of those fans who have spent thousands of dollars wishing/wanting to watch high-spirited matches.

    When players do not respect the time and money Badminton fans spending to watch their best efforts, Badminton fans might as well follow other sports.

    IMHO, players do have responsibility to play at their best all the the time. If they require to rest and to give walkovers and/or to conduct match-fixing, may I tell them don't enter those tournaments.
    .
     
    #128 chris-ccc, Aug 27, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  9. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Let's be honest with ourselves,how many of us in their shoes,facing that unexpected situation and in the heat of the moment would have committed the same act in a lapse? How else do you explain their wanting to continue in the same vein even when the tournament referee stepped in threatening to issue them with black cards? It's easy for us to condemn them and heap vitriolic criticism after the fact.

    Apparently,all the eight players weren't just doing for themselves, they weren't just listening to or obeying their coaches, more so at the back of their heads is their single-minded purpose and motive force to do their utmost to win a medal and live up to their country's high hopes and aspirations,not to mention the lucrative rewards and mouth-watering sponsorships. Everywhere they went,everyone they met to the day of the Olympics they were repeatedly told to do their nation proud and deliver results. Not one would have told them, I can safely say, to bear in mind Coubertin's ideal of true sportsmanship, never mind if they fail for winning isn't everything - "The important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle, the essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well.", to quote him..

    And let's not forget during Coubertin's time (he died in 1937), sportspeople were mainly amateurs and professionals were excluded from the Olympic Games. I think he might have fainted had he knew the amount of rewards,sponsorships and titles some of the gold medallists stood to gain esp in the last few decades. I point this out not to justify the dishonourable act of any athlete,only to explain why not a few are tempted to take the risk, intentionally or misguidedly.

    I honestly believe all these eight players are not bad people, that they never have the intention to cheat, only driven by the all-consuming desire to perform to expectations and unwittingly lost their way. Isn't it a twist of fate that the JAP pair,Fujii and Kakiiwa, that many have reason to believe were trying to lose but not too badly to their opponents who wanted to win,actually passed muster and went on to take silver,not to mention being spared the scorn that was poured on the hapless eight,particularly here in this forum? Are we then to say the guilty eight were plainly unlucky as they were all trying to lose hence the whole farce and unintended consequences, I leave it to you to judge but be fair and honest with yourself without pretensions to moral superiority?

    Suffice to say the entire regrettable incident is over, what's suffered is suffered,the punishment already meted out,what's done is done,let's move on and look ahead. But I strongly feel it is high time for BWF to come out and say something in fairness, own up to their share of the blame and,more importantly, take concrete effective measures to prevent future occurrence. Enough said except,for me at least,to welcome back all the eight beleaguered players.
     
    #129 Justin L, Aug 28, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  10. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Thanks to LDRules who first posted this link which I'm re-posting here wholesale - it's written from the professional player's perspective, worth a read with an open mind, food for thought.

    www.mississauga.com iPhone Disqualifications simply for the birdies mobile_sports.htm

    Disqualifications simply for the birdies
    August 2, 2012 00:08:00

    LONDON, ENGLAND -- Reflecting on the decision of four badminton teams to throw their games here in order to get a better playoff draw, the face of London 2012 spent Wednesday wagging his finger. "Depressing. Who wants to sit through something like that?" LOCOG chief Sebastian Coe moaned. "It is unacceptable."
    It's an unseemly thing for him to say.
    Coe long ago retired from athletics, and instead switched over to a job in sales. It's no longer within his competence to judge what is or isn't ethically acceptable behaviour for people who still need to win in order to pay their rent.
    Hours later, the discipline's governing body cravenly capitulated to public opinion (most of that public presumably having never watched a game of badminton before in their lives).
    Four teams, including the defending world champions, were tossed from the badminton competition for the sin of playing the long game instead of the short one.
    What's not at issue here is that games were thrown. The four pairs -- two from South Korea, one each from China and Indonesia -- embarked on an amusing journey into true amateurism Tuesday. Over and over, they smashed the shuttlecock into the net. They put easy shots wide. No rally lasted more than four returns.
    How would you look competing in the Olympics? Now you know.
    All four pairs were trying to ease their draw going into the knockout round, where lesser teams play each other before they meet the powerhouses. The Chinese, who have used this strategy for years on the world badminton stage, wanted to ensure their entrants could not meet before the gold medal match.
    They're out now. Four inferior teams, including a Canadian pair, were pushed forward as replacements.
    That's the silver lining to this thing -- playing another surprise entrant, Australia, Canadians Alex Bruce and Michele Li advanced to Thursday's semis. They're one win from a medal. You're happy for them, but just because it broke right for us doesn't make it fair.
    If anyone's to blame, it is organizers who decided to make this competition a round robin instead of a straight elimination. You want maximum effort? You make every match count. Otherwise, you introduce gamesmanship into the mix.
    The ticket-buying public was upset. Vocally so inside the venue, chanting "Off! Off! Off!" Three hundred years ago, their ancestors meant "heads" when they said that.
    That seems to be the real problem here. The gawkers didn't reach their fun quota on Tuesday night. If so, the ticket-buying public can go suck rocks.
    The only people who matter at the Olympics are the ones standing inside the lines of play. They're the ones doing what they are not paid to do -- they are competing. At this level, strategic losing is part of that.
    It happens in most sports, though more subtly. If they're going to start booting every athlete who takes it easy in a heat or fields an understrength squad in a meaningless game, the next job for the soldiers wandering around here is switching out fatigues for spandex and beginning to compete.
    If you want to watch people playing for the sheer joy of doing so, I'm sure there's a badminton club somewhere within driving distance of wherever you live. Otherwise, leave what's acceptable behaviour inside the game to those for whom it actually matters.
    What Coe and all the rest of the frothers are getting confused about is the difference between a spectacle and a show.
    The Olympics are entertaining. They are not entertainment.
    Pro athletes owe you their best every night. That's what they're getting paid to do. Amateurs owe nothing to the crowd. This isn't a circus. They're not getting a cut of the gate.
    Amateurs are here to represent their country and win medals. The national federations that pay their subsistence wage are their bosses. They don't care how good you look. They don't care how hard you tried. They care how much you win. Public sports funding isn't charity. It's an extension of a nation's foreign policy objectives. One of those is that you are hale enough to occasionally kick the asses of your friends and enemies.
    Putting aside all the lip service paid to respecting the Olympic spirit (tell that to the guys working at the doping labs), the highest goal here is to win within the boundaries of the rules.
    There's no rule in any sport that says you must be good. Otherwise, none of us would play anything. They play these Games to win.
    What is truly depressing is that, while undetected drug cheats will continue on here, a group of competitors playing by the well-established rules of their small world have been robbed of glory by people who didn't know who they were before Tuesday, and will forget who they are in a few days' time.
    But, for those eight competitors, the unfairness of being robbed by a riled-up, half-interested mob will last forever.
    [HR][/HR]-- Torstar News Services
     
  11. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    "Four teams, including the defending world champions, were tossed from the badminton competition for the sin of playing the long game instead of the short one."

    Here lies the inherent misconception. This idea is not correct, it is one many would like to believe but completely wrong. Both the long and short game is to follow the rules, If you don't your long game gets taken away from you through disqualification.

    This whole article is full of presumptions about the fans and keeps referencing lord Coe for some unknown reason. I believe the person who wrote this article did not understand that this was a BWF ruling and problem ("
    a group of competitors playing by the well-established rules of their small world have been robbed of glory")

    The long and the short of it is that the players defied BWF rules and they got caught. No "
    vitriolic criticism" just that's the facts, yet some fail to recognize this. I believe that is why the argument continues, NOT due to vitriol towards the players.(which is non existent on my part)
     
  12. RiverGrande

    RiverGrande Regular Member

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    just heard that Greysia - Meiliana and their coach will be banned from playing and coaching until 3 december 2012. Greys-Meiliana will appeal to PBSI . Any news about the Chinese ??
     
  13. Aikachan

    Aikachan Regular Member

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    Greysia/Meliana's punishment not so bad IMO compared to the Koreans. Then again I want to see them play in Japan Open.
     
  14. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    Korean suspensions further eased
    BY DON HEARN – – SEPTEMBER 6, 2012POSTED IN: NEWS


    According to a report yesterday from the Yonhap News Agency, the four players disqualified from the London Olympic Games for attempting to throw their matches have had a further easing of the suspensions handed down by the Korean authorities. The Korean Olympic Committee (KOC) ruled on September 5th, that the four women’s doubles players – Kim Min Jung, Ha Jung Eun, Kim Ha Na, and Jung Kyung Eun – would be allowed to compete for the entire year during which they are still suspended from the Korean National Badminton Team. The decision was made after the players appealed the ruling by the Badminton Korea Association (BKA) to ban them from domestic and international competition for 6 months (see details here). The BKA decision of a one-year suspension from the national team stands, however.

    Continued:
    http://www.badzine.net/news/korean-suspensions-further-eased/21023/
     
  15. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    These posts were taken from the on going China Masters thread and apparently it is an elimination type of tournament from start to finish meaning to say no more round robin **** and one can't blame BWF no more but still those bloody damn things happen.

    [h=2][​IMG][/h]
    What happened between Chen Long and Du Pengyu match? Aren't they supposed to play first before the women's doubles ? Do not tell me the match had a walkover in favour of Chen Long?

    Jeez, even against a Hong Kong opponent in the final, a walkover is necessary. Are you serious?!!

    Let the players compete fairly for Pete sake...


    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1970259

    http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1970302

    I am dead sure there are bound to be some "justifications" by those CBA "guardian angels" in relation to this. Never mind short or long, new or old excuses being use this time around I am awaiting eagerly for those postings. Also it comes handy as free entertainment is essential for a long weekend.

     
  16. nokh88

    nokh88 Regular Member

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    Sigh..........Badminton is in such a sorry state.
     
  17. gundamzaku

    gundamzaku Regular Member

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    maybe bwf should step up and start to regulate more?
     

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