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Laserfibre MS200TT Review

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by Pete LSD, Mar 18, 2005.

  1. fishmilk

    fishmilk Regular Member

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    Of course this would be the smart thing to do if you were aware of a racquet that's more likely to deform. However, that's not always the case. Especially if it's a customer's racquet, it's a lot more comforting for a stringer when the racquet doesn't slide.
     
  2. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Hi Fishmilk,

    I think that there can be a misunderstanding:
    I do not advise to lower the tension for the crosses because of the sliding.
    I advise that to prevent the racquet from getting longer than it should be.

    Some badminton stringers in the Netherlands did tests to minimize the deformation of racquets after stringing.

    The conclusion was that you get the best results when you tension the crosses 1-1,5 kg lower than the mains.

    So it is better for the racquet also, to prevent it from getting longer.

    I see the sliding problem as a separate "project" to solve.

    The difference between the badminton- and the tennis support is that the tennis racquet is supported by rubber O-ring and the badminton racquet is not.

    A solution that I see is to add friction points inside the supports, we did that before we used the rubber O-ring.
    I wil think about that and send you some samples to test.
     
  3. fishmilk

    fishmilk Regular Member

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    Fred, I see what you're talking about now. I string tennis as well and I understand that. I suppose the same is not practiced in badminton because the frame is thin and has a much weaker structure than tennis. Thus after doing the mains, the distortion can only be fixed with same or more tension.

    Sorry about the confusion. I thought you advised that to alleviate sliding since the frame not distorting would mean the racquet would stay put.

    Yah friction inside the support is necessary. That's why I suggested if there was ever an improved badminton mounting system, it should have some padding on the inside.

    The last issue is really being able to make some small adjustments without having to relocate the columns every time. This is very time consuming to do because you have to be very careful not to stretch the frame while giving enough pressure to prevent distortion, and also trying to keep the posts the same distance from the center. It would be a lot better if the posts had something where you could turn a knob to make small adjustments. Would take a few seconds instead of a minute or two.
     
  4. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    This is not an easy change to make, because the consequence of having a fine adjustment also means that all the force of the mains comes on this part.

    I wonder why you need to adjust the racquet exactly in the middle of the turntable?
     
  5. fishmilk

    fishmilk Regular Member

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    I've always been told that for the most consistent results, you'd want the racquet in the middle of the turntable so that the amount of string it takes to get to the tensioner will be the same.Granted as long as it's close, I'm not going to fret over anything that's less than an inch.

    Still, mounting the racquet would be a lot easier if one didn't have to readjust the columns every time. Especially when in most cases, the difference of racquets in length is no more than 1 cm.
     
  6. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Hi Fishmilk,

    I understand the wish for a fine tuning, and when we would do the "badminton special machine" I would certainly put it on my list.

    I am afraid that this is a mechanical mistake;
    The tension in the string is independent of the length to the tensioner. The string has to be in balance which means that the force on both ends have to be the same independent of the length.
    There is no way to loose tension in a free hanging string.
     
  7. fishmilk

    fishmilk Regular Member

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    Even so, the string with be stretched differently. It might be unnoticeable, I've never tried it any other way, nor would I want to in case one end might not reach the tensioner if you're tight on string. Still I believe almost all stringers try to get the racquet head close to the middle of the turntable and is considered good practice.
     
  8. Valentinas

    Valentinas Regular Member

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    Hi.

    If you are pre-weaving and you racket is on the edge of the turning table the loop of the string will possible not reach the tensioner. If it reaches - it means a big part of it will be wasted.
    If you are not pre-weaving but using string from 10m pack and you are stringing a racket like some Forza's - with dense string pattern and big frame - the last crosses possible will not reach the tensioner if racket is off-centered. In this case you will need some additional efforts using starting clamp and a piece of wasted string.

    So not-centered racket can potencially create more problems then centered.
     
  9. Distanc3

    Distanc3 Regular Member

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    does any one need to recalibrate the machine? I have not checked the accurancy of the machine with a fish scale, I'm currently using the 1small +1large weight thanks
     
  10. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Hi Dantance3,
    I understand the idea to test the dropweight with a fishscale, the question is however: What are you testing the fishscale or the tensioner?
    The dropweight is a very accurate and simple sistem based on the very simple theory of a force working on a lever.
    The fishscale is a complicated thing, with a force transducer and electronics, that makes the impression that it is accurate because it shows a the result on a digital display.
    People who know about measuring tools know that every tool has an inaccuracy, depending on the quality.

    We had one customer who tested the tensioner of the ml100 with his fishscale and it was more than a kg off under a certain angle.

    we got the unit back and tested with 2 different devices and the maximum deviation was 0,87 % when the levler was under an angle of 25 degrees.

    The nice thing about the dropweight is its simplicity. When the scale is right and the weight has the right dimensions the tension is good.
     
  11. Distanc3

    Distanc3 Regular Member

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    I was just curious, because i dont have a fish scale i wanted to ask other members if there is any discrepancy between whats written on the ruler and the fish scale.
     
  12. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    I understand you always get wiser from being curious.
     
  13. powerbaddy

    powerbaddy Regular Member

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    Hi stringtechno,
    i bought a used ml100 from someone who lost the ruler that came with the machine and i have a digital fish scale. Given what you said, would u advise using the fish scale as a reliable source to mark tension reference points on the bar with a sharpie? or would you say one of those manual spring loaded calibrators are more reliable?
     
  14. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Tension setting is only reference tension

    \
    Hi powerpaddy,

    Of course it is a good idea to use a fish scale to mark the bar. Even if the scale is a some % off it is not important. The hole stringing job is full with all kind of tension losses so it is much more important to minimize these.
    It is important for you to have the scale so that you can reproduce tensions.

    I am waiting until the badminton world starts to string on the end result (SBS) instead of the tension.

    With such high tensions and so much friction in the system the difference in result between different stringers must be huge.

    Good luck with your machine, it will last for ever.
     
  15. Valentinas

    Valentinas Regular Member

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    Yes, I have tried this already. It works.

    I have used a kitchen scale for calibrating (it was bought from fishermans shop - so it almost a fish scale :) ).

    During marking I have used an empty racket frame put on the stringing machine - to make sure that setup almost the same like in real stringing session.

    You can do one additional adjustment - Stringway has a badminton weight which is too light - the end of the bar is 11 kg as far as I remember. This is a problem when you are doing 11/12 kg - you need to add a second weight during stringing. Since I am not stringing tennis - I have added permanent 0.5 kg weight to the badminton weight. It will give you range from 7 kg to 15 kg without need to change the weights.

    Regards,

    Valentinas
     
  16. powerbaddy

    powerbaddy Regular Member

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    Hi Valentinas, what did u use to add weight to the badminton weight? I was thinkin of just buyin a second badminton weight n combining the two badminton weights together to get the ideal tension range for badminton.
     
  17. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Hi Valentinas.

    Thanks for the advise, but I am afraid that this is not so easy:
    When we increase the weight of the small weight all the scales on the ruler are wrong.

    To string on tensions above 11 kg we supply all badminton machines with the big and the small weight nowadays.

    Still, I appreciate every advise from the market, but I have to reckon with the practical possibilities.
     
  18. Valentinas

    Valentinas Regular Member

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    Just went to the sporting goods store and bought the lightest weight available - it was KETTLER 0,5 kg weight. The biggest problem was to drill a hole in it and to clean rusted screw I used to keep the two weights together. Looks ugly - but it works :). Price for weight itself was 3 usd, drilling a hole and finding the screw - for free.

    Second badminton weight could be a solution - but it is heavier and you will loose the lower part of badminton tensions range (7 kg is almost the upper tension for metal heads - you will go further with two badminton weights). This solution is elegant but costs much more.

    Regards,

    Valentinas
     
  19. Valentinas

    Valentinas Regular Member

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    Hi stringtechno

    The suggestion was for Mr. powerbaddy only - he does not have a ruler and actually forced to make a new one somehow. I am not advising every Stringway machine user to change weights and to throw away their rulers :).

    I am sure that 11 kg tension with a one single weight was a right and good design some years ago. Now we are facing requirement from advanced badminton players to string high tensions like 12-13-14 kg. Another part of players still wants 10 kg or smth. So you ending up with screwing/unscrewing the two weights almost constantly.
    Another point to consider - the accuracy of the tension setup with two weights. Requirement to string at 12.5 kg definitely creates a problem - the space between 12 and 13 kg marks is too tight. If you are stringing 2 or 3 same model rackets for the same person - the difference in results is too noticable - you can not pretend that it was "natural tension drop occured during time I was stringing another racket".

    You have a great tensioner - fast, gentle on the string and easy to operate. It can be slightly better :).

    Regards,

    Valentinas
     
  20. stringtechno

    stringtechno Regular Member

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    Hi guys,

    Hereby another advise perhaps also usefull to others:

    When you buy a second badminton weight it does NOT mean that the tension is muliplied by 2. The reason for this is that the bar is in the scale also and there is only one bar.

    This means that when you take a second badminton weight you have to deduct 4.5 kg (influence of the bar) from the scale.

    IOW:
    Lets asume you want 12,5 kg.
    You put one weight on 10 kg and the other one on 7 (2,5 + 4,5). so if you are over 10 kg you just move the second weight up and down.

    In this way you can be quite accurate and handy at the same time because you do not have to screw the big weight off every time.
     

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