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Laws of Badminton Question: Service

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by jdcastro, Oct 8, 2007.

  1. jdcastro

    jdcastro Regular Member

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    Is there a change in the rules pertaining to drive serves? Is a serve with the racket shaft almost horizontal now allowed?
     
    #1 jdcastro, Oct 8, 2007
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2007
  2. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    NO.

    As mentioned by you in Law 9.1.6, the racket shaft must be pointing downward. This will then not allow the racket to be higher than the hand holding it at impact. If the shaft is horizontal, the racket will be higher than the hand.

    This makes the second part of the old law redundant:

    "to such an extent that the whole of the head of the racket is discernibly below the whole of the server’s hand holding the racket as in Diagram D; "
     
  3. jdcastro

    jdcastro Regular Member

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    I, too, am in agreement that the old (stricter) rule should apply. But it seems that by removing the second part and Diagram D, there is no rule stopping someone from serving with an almost horizontal racket shaft. Refer to Diagram D below, it seems that based on the new rule, the two faults are now allowed since essentially the racket shaft is pointing downward, albeit the racket head is not discernibly below the server's hand (proscribed in the 2nd part of the old law).
     

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  4. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    Yes, it is as you thought.
     
  5. Loopy

    Loopy Regular Member

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    Does it mean we can serve above the waist?
    It is easy to serve completely VERTICALLY, but with the racket head held in front of the face, and the hands up high.
     
  6. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    no
    law 9.1.5 (2006)
    the whole shuttle shall be below the server's waist at the instant of being hit by the server's racket. The waist shall be considered to be an imaginary line round the body, level with the lowest part of the server's bottom rib
     
  7. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    I was dismayed to see the wording of 9.1.6 changed last year. Like you, I prefer to see the older, stricter rule enforced. Players are using to new wording as license to hit questionable, offensive drive serves. The serve in badminton was never intended to be the offensive weapon it is in tennis. While a deceptive, well-executed flick serve can rightly be used to neutralize an aggressive receiver, horizontal-shaft (or near-horizontal shaft) drive serves are just plain wrong -- counter to the intent & nature of badminton serving.
     
  8. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I completely agree.

    Personally, I see even more argument regarding serves, in club / local tournament level of playing these days. In the old days, if someone try to apply a "drive" like serve, at least s/he needs to step further away from the T joint. Now, many ppl simply swing their racket all around, and shoot a canon ball on the serve. :cool:
     
  9. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I have the opposite reaction.

    First, the old law was strictly redundant. It's easy to play a drive serve that complies with the old law. Grip tightening is sufficient for power; you can even use a completely vertical racket. The limiting factor is, and always has been, the law about hitting the shuttle from below your waist.

    Adding more power to the drive serve is useless. If you add power, it will go out.

    Second, I no longer see drive serves as an annoying violation of the rules. I see them as a perfectly legitimate serve: a challenge to receive, and an opportunity for serving. I enjoy receiving drive serves, because it gives me practice.

    Rather than get wound up about it, take on the challenge. :)
     
  10. jdcastro

    jdcastro Regular Member

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    Since 9.1.6 is the rule controlling drive serves and with the rule change, I guess the authorities think that a more offensive service is the way to go. Who pushed for the change? Did they issue an advisory to the umpires re: the allowing of this offensive drive-serve? And are the international players taking advantage of this new freedom?
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Rally scoring was the impetus for the change in serving rules. Under the old rules, a player or team could only score points on their own serve. Hence, it was advantageous to serve. With rally scoring, serving is no longer inherently advantageous. In fact, it is something of a disadvantage since the serve is primarily a "defensive" shot. This is why BWF decided to offset this shift in advantage by changing the serving parameters.

    According to Badminton.TV and another source (I'll see if I can dig it up), the liberalizing of the service laws concerning shaft orientation was meant to make it easier for servers to execute a flatter short short serve -- not really intended to facilitate drive serves.


    Don't know the answer to advisory question. I'm sure that many international players probably have changed their service to take advantage of the flatter short serve. Don't know if any (or many) of them have used the rule change to execute (questionable) drive serves.

    Has anyone noticed if more drive serves are attempted by the pros? Are most umpires allowing it?
     
  12. FlashGordy

    FlashGordy Regular Member

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    This is true. I've been playing backhand drive serves for nearly 6-7 years. Possibly the most annoying thing to face on a club night.....ever.

    Now with the relaxation of the laws, more people are trying them, so others will develop better ways to counter them and they will (to some extent) become nullified.

    The novelty factor will be there for another year or so, until they become ineffective or there's another rule change.

    Gordon
     
  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    I didn't see the old wording as all that redundant. To my mind, the wording was only slightly redundant -- enough to make it very precise, yet still fairly concise. It did require careful reading (and a graphic) to fully discern the intent of the somewhat wordy wording. On the other hand, I view the wording of the current law to be too vague -- what exactly is meant by a downward direction?

    According to a serving law explanation in one of the instruction vids on Badminton.TV, a serve that is executed with the shaft that is nearly horizontal will likely be disallowed. Unfortunately, this explanation, like the new law, is somewhat vague.


    Hmm... In my nearly 30 yrs of playing, I'm not sure that I've ever seen a drive serve executed with a vertical, or near-vertical racket shaft -- a flick serve perhaps, but not a drive serve. Do you happen to have any vids or links that show the technique you describe?

    I'm fairly certain that most of the thousands of drive serves that I've ever witnessed was done so with the shaft horizontal, or nearly horizontal. The only drive serves I've seen that appear to be legal (according to the old wording), were executed with the server standing 1 or 2 meters back from the T (as suggested by LazyBuddy).


    Receiving the drive serve is definitely less troublesome for some players than others. It helps immensely to be young/quick and not too tall. As a somewhat taller player (with longer arms), I generally shy away from engaging in drive wars with shorter players -- they usually have the advantage in such an exchange. The same applies to receiving a drive serve.

    Perhaps if I was 25 yrs younger & quicker (now in my mid-50s), I could more readily rise to that challenge. I put up with it against lesser players -- it does provide an extra challenge. However, when execute by better players, I consider it more of a nuisance. I'm forced to receive further back in the court in a unnatural crouch (too offset my height). This re-positioning severely limits my receiving options and does not allow me to punish a short serve that is a tad too high.

    If I am bested by a well-executed flick serve, I feel that the server's advantage was justly gained. However, if the server gains an unfair advantage by questionable drive serves, I feel cheated by the server.

    The real nuisance is that players that use a lot of drive serves, cheapen the game -- too many points are won on the serve outright, without a rally. I would much rather play a good cat-and-mouse game with o lot of decent rallies rather than one where numerous points are won with service aces.
     
  14. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    I suspect that the serving rules will undoubtedly change, perhaps after the Olympics. It is my hope that the 9.1.6 Law will revert back if the old, standard scoring is restored.

    Not played very many tournaments in the past 20 yrs. Most ppl in the open gyms (and college classes) in this area (SF Bay Area) still play the old 15-point game. Only current tournament players use rally scoring much at all. The rest of us try to ignore rally scoring with its most of its serving rule changes. As I mentioned in a post above, the new serving rules were meant to be part of the rally scoring package, not part of the classic 15-point game.
     
  15. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Actually, I should have said that both old and new rules are redundant. I see no reason to restrict the angle of the racket head at all, provided that the shuttle must be hit from below the waist.

    I expect that this rule will disappear completely in the future.

    Most players, however, do require a near horizontal racket for executing drive serves. This method is easier.
     
  16. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Gawd, I hope not. While receiving drive serves may be fine for quick, young bucks like you, many of us will be see a lot of points won without rallies at all if the drive serve becomes the norm.
     
  17. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    ...but since club players often cheated anyway before the rule change, the practical difference may be small.

    I agree that drive serves can be very damaging to rallies. Although I try to relish the challenge instead of moaning about it, I'd be happier with a ban on drive serves. Sometimes I impose a ban on my junior students, because the excessive use of drive serves ruins their serve/receive skill development.

    What really annoys me is blatant cheating by serving the shuttle from well above the waist.
     
  18. green_day

    green_day Regular Member

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    If you are referring to this video:

    http://www.badminton.tv/content/item/new-service-rule-2/114.html

    all the drive serves in that video look legal to me. Even the drive serves that the speaker in the video is claims may be called a fault by a service judge is still legal by the new definition in 9.1.6 - that is, the serve at 00:34. If you inspect the serve that speaker claims "may be faulted," the shaft is slightly pointing downwards at the instance of contact. Thus, it is legal as well - even though the shaft is almost horizontal in that video.
     
  19. Playful-Wind

    Playful-Wind Regular Member

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    9.1.5 the whole shuttle shall be below the server’s waist at the instant of being hit by the server’s racket. The waist shall be considered to be an imaginary line round the body, level with the lowest part of the server’s bottom rib;

    ------

    Is this still intact?

    Because watching this clip i'm sure the shuttle is being hit higher than the waist line or bottom rib.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt827rAhmzE
     
  20. FIVEs

    FIVEs Regular Member

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