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LD vs. LCW (unforced errors)

Discussion in 'German Open / All England / Swiss Open 2008' started by ye333, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    Actually that's my impression too. LCW seems to be weak on "mental stamina". One tough match (for example AE08 vs. TH) and he seems slow-thinking in the next one (AE08 vs. CJ). It would be hard for him to do well in OG if he cannot improve on this, since in OG you have to win several tough (mentally exhausting) matches in a row. :cool:

     
  2. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    LHI won German Open this year and an Indonesia Open title before.KO07 was the first time he won at home.
    Either improve your English or do your homework before spraying.
     
  3. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Let me try and help you understand the difference between mental fatigue and mental stamina.
    Stamina is what a player has originally in the tank.
    Fatigue is the drain on the tank.
    Just as every match will take its toll on a player, every tournament will inflict a greater toll.As a comparison, from TC Qualifying to SWO:
    1. LCW played 3 tourneys, some 12+ matches.
    2. LD played 2 tourneys, 10 matches(out of which were 3 match 'breaks' playing teammates which burn little mental energy)
    3. LHI played 4 tourneys,11+ matches.He won the GO but it took its toll in his crashing out first round in his 3rd and 4th tournament.
    All these 3 players have some of the best stamina. They are not 'weak' on mental stamina but mental fatigue sets in with each subsequent tournament.
    Remember LD last year? He sailed through the GO and AE but he couldn't pulled through SWO probably because it was the 3rd tournament and he lost to a qualifier,retiring due to 'back injury.' (Actually LD and company were supposed to play GO but when they realised KOR invasion, CHN chickened out, wisely.Otherwise LCW and company would have been able to enjoy the spoils of the CHN/KOR battle.)
    So pls, it's mental fatigue. Not 'weak' in mental stamina.
     
  4. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Doesn't that apply to any SS??..

    ..barring any W/O from the opponent, doesn't one go through the same process as in other SS events??..But unlike SS tourneys, the badminton matches in Olympics MS event start with Round of 32. So, counting the days, starting on Wednesday during the week, i assume there'll be no more than 1 match per day (per player)?; leading up to the Finals day on Sunday. Whilst in regular SS tourney, a player in the MS event can even have 2 matches in one day.
     
    #44 ctjcad, Apr 4, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2008
  5. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    What dannyang said were his opinions, some possible reasons why LHI had won or lost, maybe not complete. His comment about homegrown champion was referring more to recent competitions since KO 08. As for German Open 08, Sung Hwan Park was seeded #1 and LHI #2. LHI won MS there without the participation of LD, LCW, BCL, and CJ.

    We are all entitled to give our opinions in BC discussion. Your remark about him "spraying" appears to be an insult and totally uncalled for.
     
  6. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    Well, IMHO, LCW showed mental fatigue as early as AE SF against CJ. He was not very sharp either in the earlier QF against TH (at that time I thought he was hiding his real self for later battles, but then he was even slower in the match against CJ ).

     
  7. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Well, i'm glad you spoke up for him and my apologies for being terse with dannyang .So you think he's spot on?
    You think he's not insulting LHI and his brainy KO08 victory over LD?(If you follow Ye333's analysis somewhere,LHI gave away G1 to check out LD's arsenal range.)
    GO has always been CHN's turf.Why did LD and team pull out just because KOR decided to move in? Aren't you insulting LHI's GO08 win?
     
  8. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Totally agree with you.In fact, Jamesd22 noted in another thread that LCW seemed in not his best physical form since under Misbun.And jamesd22 is usually rather sharp with such observations.
    When asked how he lost to CJ, he said ,'I don't know.' Which showed how tired he must be. My guess is LCW had overtrained during training,so during competition, he was showing signs of burnout(eg, snail speed, poor tactics).But CJ deserved full credit for his win. He was so on.
    Even then, I was quite impressed that LCW could still hold on, playing on autopilot.The SWO MSF was closer than the score and I enjoyed it.LD was top form,very clear about his tactics and thoroughly deserve to win although LCW was generous in gifting him.
    Question is:How to maintain LCW in top physical form so he does not get burnout from overtraining?
     
  9. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    jamesd is not yet 22
    He is still jamesd20 :p
     
  10. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    I did not say "he's spot on". I said his reasons "maybe not complete", but they could be "some possible reasons" why LHI had won or lost. Please keep in mind, one thing in BC discussions ppl don't have to do is always giving complete pictures, assessments or reasoning. There are no requirements for BCers to give comments based on all the facts. But we do have code of conduct: no racist remarks, no personal insults, and no personal attacks, to name a few. These are the basic human decency. If you don't want to be called "spraying" when making comments, please don't do that to others.

    As his remark an insult to LHI? I don't think so. We see this kind remarks or criticism day-in and day-out in the forum about players and coaches (I can find you many examples if you'd be interested). The view was one-sided. Many BCers give their one-sided views, that's why we have debates and rebuttals. Just look at you remark to cooler, you never thought biased linesmen had anything to do with influencing the final outcome of KO 08 MSF. Was that an insult to LD? The answer was no. It's your opinion, you're well within your rights to say only what you want to tell us regarding baddy.
     
  11. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    Errrrr, LCW didnt say (if you were talking about LCW) "I dont know", LCW said he played slower against CJ.
     
  12. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    yeah, you're right, fatigue must have set in.
    Well, jamesd20, sorry, I don't mean to rush you.
    Just out of curiosity, what does the 20 denote? 22 actually look quite nice, don't you think so?
     
  13. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Read in one of the press.Maybe you can check.Don't think it's my imagination.
     
  14. Winston_T

    Winston_T Regular Member

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    high risk, high return:D
     
  15. Winston_T

    Winston_T Regular Member

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    he did very well, with a series number of bad calls.
    did u admit now that the bad calls favor to LHI?
     
  16. Winston_T

    Winston_T Regular Member

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    no one CHN top MS were participated in Ina 05 when LHI won it
     
  17. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    can't accept that. do you seriously say that other players don't think before or during the games?
     
  18. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    There's a big difference in 'thinking' between LD, or rather,CHN and non-CHN players. CHN players do a lot of the thinking way before the match. Non-CHN players try to do some thinking before the match and most of it (badly) during the match.
    It's called pre-match preparations.When CHN players do pre-match thinking, they have the full resource of their coaches to help with all the opponent possibilities.So during a match, it looks like they are 'thinking' players.I get the feeling that MAS coaches concentrate more on skills and less on 'thinking'. Pre-match thinking training is the bigger match-winning factor because the NSS leaves a player almost no time to think.The fact that there are so many upsets indicate that skills has no edge when the 'better' player knows nothing about the 'lesser' player but the lesser player knows everything about the better player.
     
  19. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    It's a bit long to explain.
    I quoted that cos this is a comment that has given about LD, LD plays "smart badminton". In comparision, it has been said that BCL & CJ depend too much on their coaches. LD is known to be able to change & adapt very fast.
    Misbun commented last year that LCW is starting to play "smart badminton", I think it means players who are more independent, without depending too much on their coaches. If the original game plan doesnt work out, they quickly are able to change, those who are successful in countering their opponents are able to play smart badminton.

    Needless to say, LCW didnt play very smart against LD in Swiss Open. It could be like LCW said, he was tired, could not execute the aggressive play that he should.
    Or like his coach Misbun said, LD (and CJ) changed their strategy against LCW. Hence, the "new styles" thingy. Of course Misbun did not & will not elaborate on that.
    Personally, my untrained eyes could not detect anything different from LD usual playing style in Swiss Open, neither did Birdwood. We do know though, LCW looked more tired than the fresh looking LD.
    So, it's either 'excuses' like ye333 said or media ploy or Misbun saw sthing we non professionals didnt see.
     
    #59 eaglehelang, Apr 9, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2008
  20. Birdwood

    Birdwood Regular Member

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    It looked this way when lesser-known players upset higher ranked ones, provided the luck was also on the side of lower ranked players that their superior opponents are not performing well. Often we saw seeded players lost in the early rounds clueless.
     

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