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Lee Yong Dae ( 이용대 / 李龙大 ) / Ko Sung Hyun ( 고성현 / 高成铉 )

Discussion in 'Korea Professional Players' started by visor, Nov 16, 2012.

  1. nizze

    nizze Regular Member

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  2. MonkeyMadness

    MonkeyMadness Regular Member

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    I think Shin and LYD, put Ko and Yoo back together and leave kim and kim to continue to develop. But these 6 players are all really strong and im sure the korea management will get it right!!
     
  3. nizze

    nizze Regular Member

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    Agree. Kim and Kim have the potential to become a top MD pair, should give them the time/opportunity to develop themselves.

    Putting Ko and Yoo back together may not be a bad idea. Although they did not win many SS titles but it seems they had a comfortable partnership.
     
  4. lilmizsara

    lilmizsara Regular Member

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    I like the discussion here! :) They have been playing dismally the past few weeks. I haven't watched their games, but i've watched the pairs they lost to. Esp the chinese pairings of Liu/Qiu and Hong/Chai. I'm no fan of the Chinese team, but I'm telling you, the Chinese are back! like i said much earlier their last few months was spent reshuffling the team and experimenting. Li YongBo is a strategist and is able to bring the best out of his players. And Ko/Lee are gonna face competition from these pairs amongst others in the months to come.

    As i was saying somewhere else too, I actually much prefer Yoo together with Ko, they had chemistry. And I still stick to my point about LYD/Ko having really awkward chemistry. Agree with alot of comments here about how Lee's negative body language is just terrible towards Ko. Something i've been observing since last year when they first paired up. I'm not sure if his megastar status is getting to his head or anything, btu whenever Ko makes a mistake, Lee just makes his.. disgust look SO obvious. I always cringe when I see those scenes on video and I'd hate to be Ko at those times. neither would I want to be Lee's partner. -.- I think Ko already feels nervous and inadequate so Lee's attitude really doesnt help. and needs to be addressed.

    Ko is the very obvious link in the partnership but I think Lee has been mmaking his fair share of unforced errors. It started back at the malaysian open. And for some reason this Korean pairing can't handle drives/net shots from opponents. When opponents drive flat shots back like Ahsan/Setiawan at the MO finals, then end up making the mistakes.

    Sorry for the long comment, signing out after this - I do agree with some of the commenters here that maybe a reshuffle is needed. I personally like KSR with LYD. maybe Ko can go back with Yoo or play with KKJ.
     
  5. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I think Ko with one of the Kims wouldn't be a bad idea. At the German Open they seemed to have fun together, while Lee was often standing just a bit away from the group (in that case, Kim, Kim, Ko, and a young player I didn't recognize).
    I think Ko should be a little more confident - he has his weak points, but so does LYD. It's no use apologizing for every mistake, and it's a bad habit as you tend to see things as your fault that aren't, and Lee made a huge amount of errors in the German Open yet he didn't apologize while Ko did.
    I think for a real world class partnership, you need to feel equal. Of course one player will have a slight leadership position on court and dictate the game in some situations (usually the net player), but that doesn't mean the other player's job is any easier or that he should feel inferior.

    Or maybe we're blowing things out of proportion and it was just a small phase for LYD ;)
     
  6. icey_drone

    icey_drone Regular Member

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    I believe Yoo Yeon Seong and Lee Yong Dae is the most viable pair

    Yoo has the right mentality and I reckon will fit well with LYD. He'll listen to LYD, but will also voice his own opinions and not let LYD command him like he does with KSH
     
  7. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Then again they'll not have the big smash KSR/KSH have....
     
  8. icey_drone

    icey_drone Regular Member

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    Yoo and LYD actually have a very strong smash

    It's just that we get misled since we always saw Jung JS as the smasher
    But Yoo Yeon Seong's smashes are decent, of course weaker than Ko and Jung but not far in comparison
     
  9. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    I'm not saying they have weak smashes - but their peak smashes aren't on the same level as Ko's and Jung's (and KSR's, imop). Also, they don't have the ability to maintain that kind of attacking power in the same manner Ko and Jung can (KSR is also struggling with that). Same with SBC, who's a very good doubles player but can only maintain the intensity from the back for so long. Perhaps something to do with the amount of muscle, both Ko and Jung are incredibly muscular while the others are all a bit leaner. Same with Fu, he has huge muscles as well - big difference in upper body strength between him and, for example, Tan, who can unleash a thunderous smash when he wants to but clearly can't sustain it for very long.
     
  10. nizze

    nizze Regular Member

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    Agree that an even power balance is very important in double's partnerships.

    IMO, if this power balance is tipped , it can create an unhealthy partnership where one party is too dominant and the other very subservient. This could hamper the development of team building qualities such as trust, respect and communication, which IMO are essential for a good partnership.
     
  11. lilmizsara

    lilmizsara Regular Member

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    [MENTION=64484]j4ckie[/MENTION] & nizze. Totally agreed! Power balance and equality is very important in.. just about any partnership I guess! Right now the power in Ko/Lee's partnership seems to be tipped heavily in Lee's direction. I think I mentioned this several pages back - that Ko always displays very submissive body language to Lee. He always looks sorry and says sorry after he makes mistakes! Lee doesnt display any sort of that kind of body language when he makes a mistake - and we know just about how many mistakes he's been making these weeks ;)

    But while it's easy to say we need to respect each other on court as partners and all, I think we need to take into account the Korean culture. Seniors/more experienced people no matter their age are highly respected and others show deference to them. Plus, it's like a cultural norm/rule which is adhered to quite strictly. This is the kind of dynamic I've seen in Ko/Lee pairing where Ko defers alot to Lee. Plus, Lee is like a star in Korea which just adds to all that clout he has. IMO, it's very difficult to introduce 'equality' into the partnership in that respect and the power is just always gonna be imbalanced I feel. =/

    I also agree that Ko with one of the Kims or even Lee with one of the Kims seem ok. The Kims seem to have rapport with each of them separately, but I've always noticed Lee hanging apart from the group, even at the Korean Open earlier this year.

    I think YYS/LYD would be an interesting pairing. They've never been paired together. And I also feel that Yoo will not be as deferent to Lee as Ko is.

    I think a guy who can keep up smashing in the back is important. But I think we might be over-rating the importance of that over other factors. A guy smashing at the back would still need a guy that is equally good at the front. Plus their personal dynamics, tactics and reading of the game have to be equally good. that's what make a wholesome pair just like JJS/lyd and especially CY/FHF. FHF can thunder down as many smashes as he likes cause of the great dynamics he had with CY and cause Cai was just superb at the front and was pretty much a playmaker I feel. so, you know, doesnt mean you have a thundering smasher at the back means your gonna do well. And actually, alot of these pro players are great smashers. my 2 cents!
     
  12. rexelus

    rexelus Regular Member

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    LYD's fame getting to his head. What a shame, this pair had the potential to be unstoppable. Yoo falls over on his ass when flat play gets rough. KSR, KJK, and SBC are all-rounders but nothing special. LYD needs to give his head a shake. He isn't a legend yet and he should work to encourage KSH instead of living in his celeb fantasy world.
     
  13. nizze

    nizze Regular Member

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    Well said! Agree with you on point of Korean's culture of deferring to their seniors/higher ranked persons. While it is a good virtue to be respectful to one's senior but over-deference to a point of being submissive can be detrimental.

    Yeap, also agree that having a good smash does not guarantee success for partnership with LYD who is a front court specialist. Various attributes such as skillsets, mindset, style of play must compliment each other to do well.
     
  14. renbo

    renbo Regular Member

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    Actually, Lee had a better smash then Jung. But Jung was not so comfortable at the net so Lee stayed there most of the time. let us not forget Lee's greatest acheivement was from the back of the court in XD.
    Beside, there are other things then smashing in the back position. Mog is not very powerfull for exemple.
     
  15. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Lee wasn't the better smasher. Of course not only power matters, but Jung's back court play was just a class above LYD's (more power, same angle, better disguised drops, better agility,....).

    His XD has actually gotten worse since the '08 OG (his back court play in MD hasn't).
     
  16. nizze

    nizze Regular Member

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    IMO, although Lee can play from the back court, his strength has always been in the front court/net area. On the other hand, Jung is particularly strong in the rear court but does not seem as comfortable/natural in front.
     
  17. Gingerbeer

    Gingerbeer Regular Member

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  18. Cheetah

    Cheetah Regular Member

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    Well just giving my opinion on this topic.

    Concerning Lee's body language.. well it's right that he looks so awefully disgusted when Ko makes a mistake. BUT you shouldn't forget that, he did it when he was partnered with Jung as well. So thinking that it is his arrogance / stardom coming to his head is a bit too much of a saying. I mean of course his status in Korea is extraordinary. He's famous ever since OG2008, all his TV apperances are being watched by so many ppl around the country. I find it awkward for Ko, I know that feeling pretty well, when you've made a mistake and your partner's body language is the same as Lee's. SO LYD needs to definitely work on that aspect.
    While I am a huge fan of Ko's I also see some points he needs to work on. Of course, as some of you pointed out, he needs to stop apologizing. And his drives, that are okay, but in tense situations he tends to get a bit messed up.

    Overall they need to work on their defense, Korea's world famous for their defense. When I see Ko / Lee playing, they look more pressured, like not that relaxed the way Jung / Lee were. They were a brick wall and I hope Ko/Lee will soon be.

    I especially like that combo but not based on their skills, but my fandom :D:D

    P.S.: I think we should not compare Jung with Ko so much... I doubt Jung/Lee were a brick wall after one year, after they started playing.... so only time will tell
     
  19. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    Ko definitely seems to be one of these confidence players who can play very well or very badly depending on how he's feeling. And LYD seems to put extra pressure on Ko with all his huffing and puffing whenever Ko makes a mistakes (which is kind of too frequently).

    Physically Ko must be one of the strongest men I've ever seen, he's right up there with Fu HF, but he needs to get his temperament right. And he's not a kid anymore, what is he, like 26?

    Kim SR seems much calmer during tough pressure situations and he is young enough to develop further.
     
  20. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    TBH KSR doesn't seem so much calmer to me - during the Thomas Cup 2012 (where he partnered with LYD) and the All England this year he made quite a few errors when the pressure rose.
    I find him to be one of the most promising and exciting doubles players right now, though, and I agree that he's got time to improve.

    KSH is gonna be 26 this May, LYD 25 this September, Kim Sa Rang 24 and Ki Jung 23 in August.
    Did anyone know Ki Jung has a twin brother he used to play with? He seems to have stopped playing internationally 2009, though.
     

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