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Legal/illegal serve?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Unknown, May 21, 2002.

  1. Unknown

    Unknown Regular Member

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    I was playing double in a club and really frustruated when there was this guy make a really weird serve to me which I can hardly return.

    I am going to attach a picture in order to make it easier to explain.

    I normally get ready in the mid of the court to receive a serve. While my partner likes to stand all the way back of the court to get ready. However, this guy (my opponent) who was serving would stand at point A and hit the shuttle pass through my partner's court and dropped at point B. The shuttle didnt even pass through my side of court at all until it dropped. By the time I reached to the back court, I was force to return the serve using my backhand and returned it high.

    Let's say if my partner was standing at the middle court to get ready, I bet the shuttle will hit my partner first.

    Do you think this is a legal or illegal serve?
    How can I return his serve without using my backhand?
     

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  2. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    Yes, it is a legal serve if the shuttle's final landing place is within your court. One way of dealing with this kind of serve is to turn your body so that you are kind of facing the server and stand a step or under a step from the T.

    The server will have three options. (a) as you describe which is probably the most common (to attach your backhand); (b) cross court short serve; and (c) back left corner. Both (b) and (c) do not attack your backhand but you need to be aware of the possibility so that you don't get caught out of position.

    To deal with (a) which is most likely going to be a drive serve (i.e. to get the shuttle over you quickly), you can use a round the head smash/drive back at the server or drop it cross court back to front where he and his partner have a long ways to go.

    If your reaction time is too late, you will be forced to use your backhand (which is the intended result from the serve). If this is the case, cross court drop it.
     
  3. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    First of all, this is a prefectly legal serve. Fortunately for you it is also a very risky one for the server (not to say stupid), as it can easily attacked by the receiver:

    Stand as close to the middle line as possible when you receive it, and position yourself a little further back than usual (by the way, if you stand mid-court when receiving the serve in doubles that is considered very far back). By doing this, you should be able to jump sideways and intercept the shuttle and drive it back with a round-the-head forehand shot, or even better, do a fast drop to the net on his backhand side. He will have a hard covering that, and so will his partner, and he probably won't try that serve again on you...

    If he is serving REALLY high you won't be able to jump and intercept the serve, but on the other hand the shuttle will be in the air longer so you will have enough time to back up and attack the shuttle (or drop it again).

    If the server decides to "trick" you and do a short diagonal serve to your forehand, he is really in trouble too: the shuttle will have a long way to travel, and all you have to do is take two steps forward and push it over the net at his backhand side.

    This serve can cause some confusion initially and might win a few points, but is a strategic disaster: it means that the server is leaving most of the net area wide open to attack.
     
  4. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Too late again

    Oops, WWC beat me to it! :)
     
  5. Chu Pa

    Chu Pa Regular Member

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    Why do people use this serve?

    I've seen people use this service method before and it never works in the long run. Yes, the first time one would get surprised by the serve and probably lose the first point. Of course, they will try it again. Your opponent has too much court to cover after he serves which you would win the point. Like Winex West described, you have lots of options to play this serve. I usually just drop it to his backhand side close to the net which he has to scramble to play a defensive shot. My other shot would be to smash it back to him. Remember, have your partner move up close to the T, since, you are receiving this type of serve so he can cover the front and you cover the back after the serve.
     
  6. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    this type of serve usually effective against beginners up to mid intermediate but not against better players. It is not deceptive enough because the receiver know what the server is gonna do. The serving side is left with lot of open unprotected court space, a position that i like my opponent to be in the first place. Sorry if i had repeated some points made by other already.
     
    #6 cooler, May 21, 2002
    Last edited: May 21, 2002
  7. Unknown

    Unknown Regular Member

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    Thanks all for your help. I will try it out tomorrow! :)
     
  8. Byro-Nenium

    Byro-Nenium Regular Member

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    Hey guys, my old doubles partner used to serve from this position on purpose. He did this because, well to put it bluntly, to p*ss our opponents off.

    I have a new doubles partner now and whenever i play against my old partner(Dan), these are the 2 main shots i normally do. Coz Dan's new partner always stands at the back. Coz he expects the lift, however by putting the shot to either C or D. We get the oppotunity to smash 1st. if you put it to D, the back player sort of expects that so he rushes in to scoop it up. If put to C, the server will need to play some form of short lift, either way, we get to smash 1st. The best way to counter this kind of serve.

    But just as importantly, keep a cool head. ;)
     

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  9. Nic

    Nic Regular Member

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    It is definitely clearer to explain with picture attached than just using our imagination. :)
     
  10. Slanter

    Slanter Regular Member

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    I call this the 'old mans serve.' Pretty much any shot you do places the opposition on the defensive. In doubles I like to dare the opposition to flick or serve high to me. My standard tactic is to target the server with all the power I can. That way they stop flicking, allowing me to attack their low serve even more. Obviously you need to mix these thing up, but intimidation works well in this game.
     
  11. shuttlejunkie

    shuttlejunkie Regular Member

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    Some sound advice - as always:) But just a word of warning about smashing back at the server. IMHO the server is likely to be expecting such a reply as it is the natural shot due to your likely body position if you're not quick enough to get right behind the shuttle. In my experience your partner is unlikely to have moved to the net position and you are likely to be slightly off balance. The front half of court you have just vacated will therefore be vulnerable to a cross court drop. So smash wisely. They'll be expecting a weakish smash and will be practiced at dealing with it. Just a thought.

    By the way excellent explanatory pictures everyone.
     
  12. jayes

    jayes Regular Member

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    Other options that I've found successful to counter this kind of serve, that has not been mentioned yet, is the backhand drive.
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Do you have to reposition your feet or change your receiving stance for such a shot?
     
  14. jayes

    jayes Regular Member

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    Yes, instead of the regular left foot forward (right handed), it will be my right-foot forward - thus becomes a backhand stance (hmmm, if there such a term?).
     
  15. vertbhand

    vertbhand New Member

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    Anybody interested in supporting this type of sideline cross serve? Perhaps suggest some tips on how to executive it correctly so it can be used in competitive situations instead of trying to shut it down. I think if used wisely it adds variety to the game and perhaps a way to dominate the opponent every other point you see? Should it be used f/hand or b/hand? Should you drive the serve or hit it high from the sideline to the rear cross?

    Let me know your thoughts and tips.
     
  16. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    To be honest it's not worth using. Once you get to a high enough level it becomes basically ineffective. So if you're practicing this kind of serve, it means you're not practicing your other useful serves as much.

    As other people said (like 14 years ago lol, old topic), it's too easy to just angle your body slightly towards the server and stand a little further back. From there you can return the serves with attacking shots instead of the defensive shots that the serve should force. A standard flick serve is much more effective.

    There are a couple of people at my club who do this (older men) and they're very accurate (like you're never sure if it's in or not but it actually is) but even a normal flick serve can create this confusion already. This will definitely frustrate lower level players but in the long run it's not a good strategy.
     
  17. _henry

    _henry New Member

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    It depends on the experience of the opponents. It won't be effective against someone who has seen the serve before or someone who can analyse the game well. One reason is that the stance/position on the court when you make this serve is very distinct. Against experienced opponents I'd probably only attempt this serve once or twice.

    I don't use this serve but a guy at my local club does. From experience and observation - it's used forehand and is driven to the long service line, at the centre line. The height should be as low as possible to reduce the chance of a successful return e.g. a smash. They key is probably the speed that it travels to the back - it should give the opponents little time to think as possible. When I first experienced this serve, it was hard to play against because you had little time to think about where/how to return the shuttle and sometimes I was in two minds whether to take it backhand or forehand which wasted precious time.

    As a final note: from an opponent's perspective, the return of this service is much more easily hit when the shuttle is hit towards their/my forehand side.
     
  18. LordGopu

    LordGopu Regular Member

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    Yeah well that's the major problem with this serve. When you see someone walking to the corner like that you know it's probably coming. You can hit flat but even a drive serve like that would be ineffective against better players.

    As well, you have to be a good enough player to do a legal, fast drive serve and to have the accuracy to land it in that corner. At that point you're probably skilled enough to just beat someone if they're not able to return those serves. It seems more like a "solution in search of a problem" type thing. Like you've got this awkward to return serve but it requires decent skill to pull it off and probably only works against people less skilled than you. It just doesn't really fit into a badminton repertoire IMO.
     

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