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Let's conclude it, Lin Dan is the best MS baddy player in human history.

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by Wong8Egg, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    Hmm....a very refreshing finding I would say. Perhaps others who are more knowledgeable on Rudy Hartono and INA badminton in those days can comment about it.

    I only know that at that time, competition in INA was very intense and you simply had to be the best before you could get sent to compete in international tourneys. So, several rounds of internal selection were necessary to choose the best player.

     
  2. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Perhaps others who are more knowledgeable on Rudy Hartono and INA badminton in those days can comment about it.

    LOL, you seem to be saying that I am not knowledgeable about Rudy Hartono,people in this forum know I am the one promoting and trying to etch in history the achievements of Rudy Hartono and Liem Swie King, where nobody else would bother. i am not taking anything away from Rudy, but his career was a bit shaky after 1974, people say that the 1976 final was not played out whole-heartedly.All the stuff about Ina baddy history is available on the PBSI site.
    It was the 70s, the era of the Magnificent Seven, it was a time when people were whispering that Tang and Hou
    could depose Rudy but Ina never let it happen. They allowed Liem Swie King to play in the SEA games in 1976, and he was beaten by 37 year old Hou Jia Jiang.Later on Ilie Sumirat beat both Tang and Hou in the ABC in Bangkok in 1976, both were 37 years old by then .
    Rudy retired in 1976, but LSK was beaten by Sven Pri in 1977, Rudy was recalled to prop up LSK, so LSK won in 1978, then LSK lost again in 1980 to Prakash, and again Rudy was recalled to restore Ina glory.Rudy even became world champion in 1980 at the age of 30 beating LSK.
    LSK once played Lius Ponggoh in Ina Open,Lius was making a comeback after he nearly lost his life, LSK was leading maybe 14-1 in the match and allowed Lius to chase up and win. You can see on youtube how LSK handed points to Lius in the 1980 WC semis.
    After the retirement of Rudy in 1982, LSK soldiered on but a new power in the form of China dominated the sport.
    Perhaps some people from Ina from that era can tell more (assuming they like to leak to the world their own domestic affairs and other warts). One that I know has already passed away, Indra Gunawan.
     
  3. pBmMalaysia

    pBmMalaysia Regular Member

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    the underlined maybe a bit sensitive ;)
    what bbn had said i can still recall my late father saying similar stories:

    but my father was a big fan of tang and hou, he would find and buy all newspaper & magazine if there was any news on them and he would translate to me and tell his friends, just like bc now without computer then.:D

    what i can still recall most of them have already been said in bc and some from bbn. indonesia looked at rudy as their king, a role model and they were indeed very protective of him until sumirat beat both tang and hou my late father said '' probably this is their (tang & hou) last bait to lure rudy out to play''
    but it never happened;)
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Hou.jpg Hou &Tang.jpg News like these(hope you read Malay).I will load all these into a blog later.
     
  5. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Two mistakes and errors in my comments,LSK was beaten b Fleming Delfs in 1977 AE,not Sven Pri.

    in 1976 both Tang & Hou were about 34 not 37.

    I wonder if LD 's achievements will enter Guiness book of records or put him in Time magazine like Hartono ot Tang.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it was also mentioned in Hou's autobiography. INA kept Rudy from Hou and Tang. and then in 1982, they took Rudy out of retirement only to get beaten by Luan Jin in the TC. however, Tang/Hou was already retired and were coach of the CHN team.

    [video=youtube;XY-LUfZuheY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY-LUfZuheY[/video]
     
  7. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Rudy Hartono Adobe File

    Can anyone remember the link of the Rudy Hartono article when he was voted in Time magazine

    as one of Asia's all-time icons?

    In the meantime i will try to see if I can recover my own adobe file as the one loaded is damaged.
     
  8. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Rudy Hartono article when he was voted in Time magazine's "60 years of Asian Heroes"

    .
    Rudy Hartono article when he was voted in Time magazine's "60 years of Asian Heroes".

    http://www.time.com/time/asia/2006/heroes/ae_hartono.html

    Rudy Hartono
    His spellbinding victories showed a nation that anything was possible
    By Jason Tedjasukmana

    Believe it or not, there was a time when mention of Indonesia conjured up images of something other than pollution or terrorism. That time was coterminous with the career of badminton star Rudy Hartono—a dazzling eight-year spell from 1968 to 1976, during which Indonesia would be freely associated with agility and brio, not brown haze and bombs. Granted, badminton does not have the massive followings of soccer or cricket. But to its devoted fans there is no sound sweeter than the swish of a goosefeather shuttlecock. Just ask the Indonesians, who arguably are the most fanatical followers of all.

    Before the Chinese-Indonesian Hartono, born Nio Hap Liang, took the badminton world by storm, only one other Indonesian, Tan Joe Hok, had won the coveted All England title—the game's equivalent to Wimbledon. The search was quickly on for another homegrown champion and in Surabaya, the industrial capital of East Java, the young Hartono was being groomed for glory. He trained on concrete at a nearby railway station during the day, and under kerosene lamps at night, under the watchful eye of his father—a player of average ability who channeled frustrated ambitions through his son. "Back then, athletes became successful because of their parents," explains Hartono, now 57 and living in Jakarta, where he works for an oil company. "There was no organization or club, much less sponsorship."

    While competing in municipal tournaments, the teenage Hartono caught the eye of national scouts. From that moment on, his rise was the stuff of legend. In 1967, he was part of the Indonesian squad that won the Thomas Cup. The following year, aged 19, he struck out on his own. With the whole country watching back home, Hartono defeated Malaysia's Tan Aik Huang to bring the All England title back to Indonesia. It galvanized the nation. "I remember listening to the match on the radio when I was growing up in Central Java," recalls Clara Joewono, a director at Jakarta's Centre for Strategic and International Studies. "After he won, all the kids in Pekalongan exploded on to the streets with their rackets."

    Hartono's playing style, characterized by its ferocious power, earned him another seven All England titles, six of them consecutively. More than that, to a country now riven by religious strife, separatism and economic woes, he was, for eight glorious years, a symbol of unity and pride—badminton's boy king, through whom Indonesia ruled the world.
    .
     
  9. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Saay,

    Luan Jin has moved again. This time he has moved from Taiwan and now he is coaching the Singapore team!
     
  10. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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  11. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    This thread deserve yet another bump with the AG gold in his bag now.





    I hope Lin Dan will come to play Canada and US open next year. So he could be on par with Taufik's achievement.:p
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    Surely, Lin Dan is already on par with Taufik Hidayat

    .
    :eek::eek::eek: Surely, Lin Dan is on par with Taufik Hidayat, if not surpassing Taufik already.

    If Lin Dan were to come to Canada to play, I am sure he would multiply many fans there. :):):)
    .
     
  13. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..LD has surpassed TH lah in terms of winning arguably all of the individual major tourneys in badminton..
     
  14. johnchang

    johnchang Regular Member

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    I think it's difficult to compare eras with different circumstances, technology, knowledge, fitness regimes etc. Each era has it's own peculiar situations with it's own attending superstars and different styles of play. I don't think you can judge who is better than whom when comparing eras. For example Rudy Hartono won 8 All England titles, 7 of which was won consecutively - a record which is pretty hard to emulate let alone beat. He aslo won the WC title in 1980 - after coming out of retirement! Plus the OG title in 1972 - although badminton was only a demonstration sport then. Rudy Hartono was the most dominant player of his era. Do all these pale in comparison to LD's achievements? You'd have a hard time convincing me.

    Likewise in golf there is the unending debate about who is the best - Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus?
     
  15. laivc

    laivc Regular Member

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    With no disrespect for Hartono, he was so dominant during his time because 2 of his strongest competitors, Hou Jiachang & Tang Xianhu from China were not allowed to participate in international competitions due to political reason. Unlike todays, LD has to plays all his strongest opponents on the day like TH, LCW, PG, etc to win all his titles.
     
  16. cadlag

    cadlag Regular Member

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    The only ss title that LD has not won yet is Malaysia Open, is this right?
     
  17. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    I don't think he has won Indonesian Open either. But LD did win one of his WC at Malaysia.
     
  18. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    ..LD also hasn't won the S'pore Open SS, basically the trio of SEA SS;)...oh, and the Japan Open SS, although he won it a couple of times before it was technically labeled a SS..;)
     
  19. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    agree with comparing players from different eras. all the factors you listed are all valid and none of them can be quantified.

    i like to compare era with the number of number of worthy opponents. if someone dominates an era but there are no worth opponent, it only makes it less valuable.

    we have two very good era to talk about. one is the mid-80s. when the first 4 "heavenly-kings" emerged, namely, Yang Yang, Zhao Jinhua, Morten Frost, and Icuk Sugiarto. each of them have their own strengths and style. the next is from around 2004 to now. where we have 4 new heavenly kings, namely, Lin Dan, Lee Chong Wei, Taufik Hidayat and Peter Gade. each have their own wins and losses, but Lin Dan has emerged to be the best out of the 4 in terms of head-to-head and major wins.
     
  20. smashingmark

    smashingmark Regular Member

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    I agree with you all, Lin Dan is one of the greatest or some would say the greatest.
    I think Lin Dan should try to compete in all of the super series tournaments and win everything to leave a mark.
    To me Lin Dan is in a league of his own among the heavenly kings of this era.. A couple of years back Taufik could take him down.. however we should not forget the great player Taufik was and what he has achieved :)
    Chong Wei however has only won the All England this year.. He has not won any other Major titles. His performance in the finals against Lin Dan in the Asia Games just shows us the different level of play between the two players. Lin Dan was playing like a world No. 1 and Chong Wei a world no. 3 or 4.. Just take a look again at the video to see the two different levels.

    Overall for this era, I believe that Lin Dan tops all even Taufik.. But to compare with the past players, it will be difficult..
     

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