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Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by seawell, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    5 times during the qualifying period he got beaten by team-mates that know his weaknesses and tactics inside out, and also without any coaching during these matches (which make a huge deal for less creative players like CJ chanses against the stronger team-members imop)..

    So Yes, all those draws against his teammates lost him valuable ranking points.

    The thing is that Gade did not beat those guys a single time during the qualifying period, but luckily for him he did not have to face them so many times due to the draws, and therefore CJ lost more ranking against them than gade did (So you could say that CJ got hurt more by their precense than PG for example, therefore my "robbing" expression).

    Also keep in mind that Gade for example being ranked highest in his country/team will get more opportunity to get ranking points in BWF team-competitions. Due to playing 1st singles for DK ind TC, SC, European team championships etc.

    Not really. The bigger picture here is that the qualification rules are unfair to a player like CJ, who I think most people would agree currently is a stronger player than all players including Gade, excluding LCW, LD and CL.
    I think the spirit of the rules is that the four strongest players in the world should play in OG, otherwise they would have limited the qualification to just 2-players per country.. saying that any countrycan only get max two medals per badminton event.

    I don't think it can be viewed as fair and morally right that he should be excluded from chances of taking an OG medal (and also of course deprived of all the possible personal OG WR-ranking points!).

    Basically BWF stacked the odds against getting 3 MS to Olympics... And I don't think the Chineese team think the rules are fair, to begin with..

    But who is "stealing" fruit from whom here? It is really stretching it beyond reason to say CJ is stealing an OG-spot from someone? Who would he be stealing that from?? It would be more easilly argued that BWF tried to steal CJs chance of getting an OG medal and some major ranking points to his WR, by makin it extremely hard to get three qualifiers from any NOC.

    I think plato once said “…it’s better in fact to be guilty of manslaughter than of fraud about what is fair and just.” .. maybe pushing it a bit, but denying CJ in the OG draw and allowing guys from Sweden and Maldives to play cannot really be considered fair and just, in the olympic spirit!!
     
    #3161 twobeer, Jun 26, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  2. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    i think another way to eradicate the supposed "cheating" and match fixing by CBA & master LYB is for BWF to simply change the rule from allowing 3 players from 1 NOC (WR in top 4) to qualify for the OG to only 1 per NOC (okay, maybe give 2)!!! Problem solved.. If that's the case, let's see how clever master LYB can figure out & devise a way to do all the match fixing & cheating etc.:cool:

    Looking back, as long as there're loopholes and ways to manipulate/take advantage of the rules, it's almost as if BWF is the one who's allowing all this to happen & without oversight..hmm?
     
    #3162 ctjcad, Jun 26, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  3. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    Sat Mar 22 2008

    AFP

    China's badminton head coach has admitted ordering a player to throw a crucial tie at the 2004 Olympic Games.


    Coach Li Yongbo told China Central Television's sports channel that the 2004 Athens Olympics semi-final was fixed to improve China's chances of winning a gold medal.


    Two Chinese players, Zhou Mi and Zhang Ning, were drawn together in the semi-final tie.


    After watching Zhang win the first game, the coaching staff decided that she would have a better shot at winning the final against a non-Chinese opponent rather than Zhou.


    "After the first game, Zhang looked in better all round shape," Li was quoted as saying in a report on the interview by Sina.Com, a popular website.


    "So we told Zhou Mi not to work too hard and let Zhang into the final."

    Li said he and the Chinese team had nothing to be ashamed of.


    "It shows our patriotism and in fact I am proud of it."


    Zhang won the gold as planned and is expected to defend her Olympic title at the Beijing Games here in August.


    For her part, Zhou quit the Chinese team and went to Hong Kong. She is currently hoping to qualify to represent the territory in badminton at the Beijing Olympics.


    Li's admission revived long-standing concern about behind-the-scenes arrangements at top international table tennis and badminton events by Chinese teams.
     
  4. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    everyone know it is fixed
     
  5. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    BWF is looting and money laundering the money man. It is all about money. Just like the recent news about a pastor who swindled 23million in Singapore. ;)

    If they change the rules, CBA will be angry. So, no money for them. If you want money, better keep quite and let us win it. lol. ;)
     
  6. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Who s the non-CHN WS finalist who was probably cheated of the gold and national glory?
     
  7. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    mia audina i guess
     
  8. Jagdpanther

    Jagdpanther Regular Member

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    *sigh* Now that I've thought about it... BWF, FIFA, they're all the same. Rotten to the root. :(
     
  9. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Great post, summing it up!!

    First the tricky part is to decide what is "fair".. what a fanatic LCW fan i KL will think is "fair" will by definitin not be the same as what a fanatic LYB fan in China will think is "fair",,

    I remember the old saying.. "One law for the lion and ox is oppression." .. fairness is mostly a relative term to begin with.

    If IOC/BWF made a rule with 1 representative per Country (NOC) in the badminton event.. It could be argued that that would not be fair against countries with possibilites for more than one medal, and many good athletes in one sport.

    If IOC/BWF allow more than 2 players in a cup format it will also be a risk that this can be viewed as unfair giving a country a possibility to use this to their advantage.

    I could actually think it would make a sound argument to say that each country is only alowed to send ONE athlete or one team to each event in OG to represent theri country.. But of course for some hard working athletes in some countries that could of course be considered unfair against these hard working athletes :-(

    A possible soultion would perhaps be to always schedule same country-vs-country matches closer to the next round to offset any advantage of rest by match fixing.. For example:

    Day1: Semi Country1 vs. country 2. player.
    Day2: Semi Coyntry3 vs. Country 3. player (same country opponents).
    Day3. FInals..
    Giving the non country vs. country an extra day of rest.

    Of course the problem with this would be if Country3 vs. country3 really battles it out hard then the dissadvantage would be doubled.

    Another approach would be to schedule lets say 3 days of rest between semis and finals.. Essentially negating ANY advantage of how tough the semi was!!

    Personally I think it is impossible to regulate "effort".. So I think it has to be decided if you want to a) give a country with many highly skilled atheletes a possibility of a slight advantage, by not living up to the "spirit" of the rules, or if you want to give them a dissadvantage to offset their strenght. It is hard to vison anything that could be best of both worlds.

    Perhaps the best compromise in my view would be to have a limit of 2 participants per country in individual event and add a team event to OG for men-team, women-team and mixed-team.
     
    #3169 twobeer, Jun 27, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  10. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    Not really limsy. Some LD fanatic would denied it at all cost with long winding post consist of supposed effective measures for fair play. The irony is, why all the inputs and suggestions if match fixing does not exist? And what does a fixed match brings for the player and the game?

    According to them nothing significant.:rolleyes:
     
  11. drifit

    drifit Moderator

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    just take it as it is. everyone can argue the same thing until year 2100. lost a battle is small matter, win the war is the ultimatum.
    why only China has to be blamed? easy target for everyone? this scenarion is happening around the world, even in USA.
     
  12. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

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    this sentence of yours, i think i finally can understand what you mean fully. sorry to make you repeat it for many times.

    i think i should try to get it right about my words. i think you have misunderstand what i tried to tell. i never meant to tell that advantages from WDN or retired from players of different countries as a cheat like you said above. in my that post, what i tried to said is just about how a player optimized their chance. as for reason i bring the phrase 'a cheat is always a cheat', it's just for comparison. a cheat, whatever the reason, should consider as a cheat, it's what you guys saying, right? so do with advantage to me. an advantage, from where they come, still an advantage, and finally it's up to the players theirselves to deliver the chances they have into something, success or fail. just it. maybe you can check my that post once again and i hope you can understand my intention better now. but again, of course it's up to you. :)
     
    #3172 bad's fan, Jun 27, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2012
  13. Harsh.boy365

    Harsh.boy365 Regular Member

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    Lin dan is no.1 in world rankings :d :d :d
     
  14. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Because badminton is dependent on govt handout for life support, becomes its puppet, this discussion on dubious assisted WO and match fixing has and will go on in badminton. The discussion here as has been in the past was some people defending and justifying 'arranged' WO/match fixing whether by CHN (more rampant) or others as acceptable actions. Try asking a ticket-paying fan, especially those who fly in from another country, how they feel to take on a fixed match where the players simply going through Tai Chi motion or worst still WO (no play). Refund plus reimbursement for expenses? Yeah right!
    When LYB boasted to CHN TV, he must be thinking CHN fans would support and cheer him on as a patriot, only to be rebuked and receive negative response, so does anyone, other than idiots, think LYB would again admit to fxing anything in future? Simply put, if match fixing is not relevant or yield any advantage, so take the risk with nothing to gain, why do it at all? Because LYB figures there is an advantage.
    On sports' result fixing in USA (boxing?) or Europe (soccer?), badminton is small peanut of a potato among the giants in the world of match fixing.
     
  15. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    Lin Dan will not win in the Olympics at this rate

    Reason being:

    He is slower than he was at his best

    He seldom smashes and sometimes refused to do so when he caught his opponent wrong footed. That's where his points came from.

    He seems disinterested whenever he loses a point cheaply

    His amount of unforced errors have increased a lot statistically


    I would have switched to Lee Chong Wei to be the true OG champion. Now that bloke is injured for no reason...i think the winner of the OG will be unpredictable. I will say unless Lin Dan plays like how he did in the Asian Games (which is actually good enough), a hunch feeling he will get knocked out by a player who is younger, more enthusiastic, and will go for every smash whenever possible.
     
  16. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    No more stomach ache this time in finals. Maybe in semis. lol. ;)
     
  17. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I too think Lin Dan may not win this OG gold.

    He's been there,done that. This is the second time he's climbing Mt Everest,so to speak,not that OG is the strongest tournament,the SSF/SSP and WC are stronger. He's off his peak,lost quite a lot of motivation and drive,no more the simple joy of winning, getting ready to be a father,putting his family first,etc, - in fact,his recent form is a telling sign.

    Originally, I thought Lee CW will win this OG as his crowning glory,he's hungry,has everything to prove,he will work himself to the bones and fight his guts out, and he deserves it, but,alas...All is not lost,we shall see.

    Now I'm thinking Chen Long may be the surprise winner depending on how the draw turns out. Still,nobody in his right mind will rule out Lin Dan,just that he's no longer the same awesome Lin Dan of Beijing 2008. Moreover,don't forget the dark horses,whoever they may be.

    Whatever,to me,Lin Dan has nothing more to prove, nothing essential to achieve, I ask nothing more from him and respect his personal wish to lead his own life and do his own things apart from badminton. He has dedicated the best 10 years of his life to the badminton world, producing several masterpieces and everlasting works of art in badminton that will forever be cherished by badminton lovers all over the world. To Lin Dan, we salute and owe you an eternal gratitude.

    Amazingly,it's not over yet. He continues to shine brilliantly - Lin Dan, The Greatest of All Time.:)
     
  18. repentedboy

    repentedboy Regular Member

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    Then there's slim hope for China



    If he loses because his opponent is stronger, then nobody would really care so much about Lin Dan's dismissal
    However, like the game between him and Sony. I have a feeling he is going to repeat the same way he played in the Olympics.
    To me, that is worrying because his chances of losing will be extremely high should he get pitted against Tago, Sasaki
    and Simon Santoso in the early rounds. They are a lot faster and exhibit the willingness to go for the kill.
    Lin Dan should actually take this Olympic seriously because no matter how great you are, an unprecedented defeat simply because
    you do not put your heart and mind into the game will put him into a lot of trouble. Ignoring what the media thinks about him,
    sponsors and team will to some extent condemn his lack of commitment to make China proud once more.
    For Pete sake, he is only 28 years old. Lee Chong Wei/Sasaki/Santoso's age gap is not too far apart from his but i see more commitment and
    dedication from them to kill the shuttle and take risks. Sometimes luck just deserts them at the critical points.
    The reduction of his number of smashes and increased amount of unforced errors will be his doom in the Olympics.
    I do not care about Chen Long because i think he is not destined to be a great player. He is like a typical graduate who knows how to do well in exams
    but cannot succeed in the real world. Chen Jin ? What are his chances ? not that high.
    In short, his style of play currently wont deliver China a gold medal. Notice most of his top opponents are now narrowing the score gap when playing against him.
    Now that's a worrying sign
     
  19. SuperCNJ

    SuperCNJ New Member

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    I think the problem with Lin Dan and his chances of winning the OG is fatigue. Mental and perhaps a little physical. I don't think age has much to do with it. Players in all sports know that the difficulty is not in becoming the world's best but staying there. Having done so for so long it will inevitably take it's toll on you however good you are. The constant requirement for self motivation and dedication will slowly erode as you tire. I'm sure even the most enthusiastic and dedicated person will tire given the amount of mental strain he would no doubt have sustained through the years.
     
  20. V1lau

    V1lau Regular Member

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    So why blame Lin Dan for this? What does he have to do with LYB's alleged decisions? The solution to this problem is actually very simple! The other countries simply must get better and not allow China to occupy so many of the top positions as in the case with MD at the moment.

    I going to reject your claim Lin Dan couldn't have won all these titles without assistance, you'll say the opposite ... Let's move on
     

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