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Lin Dan WILDCARD to the 2013 World Championships: Yes or no?

Discussion in 'World Championship 2013' started by Cheung, May 19, 2013.

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Was BWF right to give Lin Dan a wildcard?

  1. Yes - for the good of the game

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  2. No - he hasn't played for 8 months

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  3. Don't know - I can't decide - it's complicated :-(

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  1. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    I would totally agree with you if BWF gave the wild card to LD for slacking off.

    But, it's more likely they gave the wild card (in spite of LD slacking off) to promote interest (including/especially commercial interest) in this WC. It may not be a noble motive, but this is the world we live in. Money speaks.

    Look, I'm Malaysian and I weep for LCW every time he comes close but not quite there. But I can't dispute the fact if BWF had set out to promote more interest in the event, they did the right thing by giving a wild card to LD.
     
  2. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    How is the integrity of the game compromised? How are the players not competing on a level playing field? Win a few of these world titles and take a year long break. I'm sure BWF will be more than happy to give you a wildcard as well. And how is BWF not adhering to its own standards and rules when the provision for a wildcard is clearly stated in its rules?

    Oh man I just won my second Olympics after being at the peak of world badminton for more than a decade. And then I got married. But no, spending time with my family isn't a legitimate reason for me not competing for almost a year because thunder.tw said so, and he's also apparently the authority on the "proper and responsible use of the wild cards".

    Really, just who do you think you are?
     
  3. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Well come on you really don't expect the the BWF would actually give the wild card to explicitly for his slacking off? It is in effect what he did there was no legitimate reason for him not to qualify the same way everyone else did.

    Ah so if I can show my actions are profitable I now have license to do as I please? The poll didn't ask "Does the BWF have a good excuse" the poll asked "was the BWF Right to grant the wild card". My opinion no it isn't right. Do they have a good excuse? Well that's another question and based on the relative morality of the beholder.

    So? Is the game really so frail that it can't withstand the absence of a single player. Then by that logic shouldn't Lin Dan be condemned for the damage he did in not playing on the tour at large. Or, can professional badminton only survive as China's whore?
     
  4. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

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    Because you are lowering the standard of entery for a single player based on past performance.

    Is the concept that all the players in order to qualify have to grind it out on tour, travelling, competing dealing with minor injuries and what not while a single player does not. So subtle and complex a concept that it is only able to be grasped by those that possess genius? Or are we just dealing with honest or will full ignorance or just plain stupidity.

    Look it really shouldn't be that hard to grasp.


    Won't work if I win a Stanly Cup, a Super bowl, the world cup of soccer, the world series, the NBA championship. I will still need to play the regular season to make the playoffs.



    A provision is clearly stated and that is not what the debate is. As I've stated ad nauseum, the BWF as the governing body can do what ever it wants and if there isn't a provision already it as the governing body can simply write one, can't it?

    The question is whether the granting of the Wildcard to LD in this case a responsible application of that provision. In my opinion it is not.



    Cool, you've degrading to raving luancy. Who do I think I am? Well if that has anything to do with this, I am simply a guy with an opinion who when asked, in an internet poll for example, offers that opinion and when challenged can defend that opinion intelligently.

    Who are you? I'm guessing merely one of the legion willing to drop to their knees and open their mouths at every jiggle of Lin Dan's fly.
     
  5. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    Perhaps if you actually had an ounce of the intelligence that you claim to possess, you'd look at the whole post instead of dissecting it nonsensically, sentence by sentence, and then pretend to make an argument.

    The point is that the wildcard is available to everyone, provided that they have achieved as much as Lin Dan. You talk about how players should be rewarded with a spot in the WC if they have slogged it out for the qualifying period. Why shouldn't anyone be rewarded with a wildcard if they have slogged it out over a much longer time period and performed at the top consistently?

    I have no idea why you chose to bring in other sports because as I clearly stated, it is BWF who will award outstanding players with a wildcard, and as such the scope of the discussion is within the badminton world. Again, maybe if you had the comprehension skills to process more than one sentence at a time, you would have caught that.

    So first you berate the BWF for, and I quote, "the failure to adhere to its own standards and rules", when I pointed out that they are indeed following the rules, you turn around and say that hell, they write the rules anyway, so this is a moot point! Make up your mind.

    I agree with you that this isn't about the rule itself, but about the application. You, unfortunately, did not phrase it that way.

    Fair enough. You have your opinions, I have mine.

    If you didn't use sentences like these, and in general take a holier than thou attitude on basically everything, I'd be happy to simply agree to disagree. I'm sure most others would, as well.
     
  6. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    The wild card has been granted to Lin Dan and the WC is already in progress, yet some people still can't get over the wild card (which clearly they have no issue with) for Lin Dan (which is what they are so sore about).

    BWF as the world governing sport body have their rights but only to do what is legal,proper and acceptable and popular if possible in a responsible manner towards the promotion,growth and development of the sport and ensuring its good governance in the spirit of fair play and sportsmanship. Just as freedom of speech is a human right doesn't mean you can utter obscenity, commit slander/libel, sedition, copyright violation or encroach upon the rights of others. In other words, BWF is a democratically elected body whose officials act according to legitimate rules and regulations, they are held accountable for their actions, they are constantly under scrutiny and they risk censure and risk being voted out for poor performance or removed from office for serious violations.

    The reasons,grounds and precedents for issuance of wild cards by the various sports bodies/organizations for various players is well-documented and a simple reading of them would be immediately clear to us why Lin Dan fully deserves it in his case, the arguments for it have been so ably and sensibly presented here by several open-minded, unbiased BCers if you care to go over them again.

    So far, the arguments against the wild card to Lin Dan:-

    1) He slacked off for a year, not because he was injured, recovering from serious illness or took time off to give birth. --- So what? Shouldn't players be allowed or even encouraged to take a break as they deem fit for whatever personal reasons. For Lin Dan's case, he's dedicated 12 years of his life to badminton and wishes to spend more quality time with his family to do duty as a filial son, get married, to experience a different kind of life for a while, to think through his career and decide on his future path, or simply to come back fresher,better and stronger after a well-earned rest - it's his entitlement, his God-given right, natural and legal. Don't we all wish, if time and money permit, to take a long break from our regular job, to do the things we love and are passionate about or simply to get away from it all for a while?;

    2) Because of (1) above, Lin Dan shouldn't qualify as his ranking has fallen outside the requirement. --- On the contrary, I argue that's why BWF resorted to using the wild card to overcome the technicality. As we know, BAM as the organizer for the 2005 WC actually issued five wildcards to themselves for players/pairs who couldn't qualify on their own;

    3) It's not a level playing field. -- How so? Where's the logic? A stronger player who is good enough to be invited to any tournament, not to mention a great player, should be denied a wild card while a much weaker or unknown player should be given the chance/privilege to participate?! You mean, we ought to punish Lin Dan for taking the long 'unjustifiable to some people' break whereas mediocre performers deserve better because they never took an 'unacceptable' break and they've been working hard all along. Any objection if the wild card is granted to, say, Lee Hyun-il who retired after the LOG but made a comeback appearance at the Axiata Cup? He'd gladly accept it, I'm sure. Will we be quarrelling over his inclusion here (search your heart)?;....

    I'll stop here for the time being. Hey,the WC is ongoing, let's not distract ourselves, wait until it's over before we come back to it if anybody is still keen, most wouldn't I think.

    Meanwhile, I'd advise anyone debating the issue to refrain from ad hominem arguments, personal attacks and name-calling - you've lost it once you do and I'll probably not dignify you with a reply. Let's observe the rules of engagement for a lively,fruitful exchange of views.

    Right now, a very tense XD match between MJ/XC and the Danish pair with G1 upset win is riveting our attention, mine at least. Now for the rubber!
     
  7. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    Basically, yes. Within the regulatory and legal framework.

    If you have moral qualms over it, then work on strengthening the regulation.

    I did not say the game is frail. I'm just saying it could benefit from any added interest in it.
    You cannot officially condemn a player for not playing regularly. The player has the right to do so.
    (We can of course condemn him unofficially.)
     
  8. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    You're right on the spot. In most cases, they have consciously or unconsciously separated the wild card issue from Lin Dan and just zero in on him, forgetting the meaning and purpose of wild cards regardless for commercial reasons (which itself is an important consideration,realistically speaking), acceding to popular demand, for the spirit of the game as in the Olympics, sport promotion, to raise or uphold the stature of the event, and so on and so forth. Mind you, we're not talking about social justice and equality.

    In sports competition, we want to constantly raise standards, for that all the best players in the world have to do their part, not just win accolades for themselves but for the value of sports, eg striving for excellence, how to handle failure, not to give up easily when we lose, towards attaining a sound mind in a healthy body, and suchlike.
     
  9. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Do you really mean this? :confused:
     
  10. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    From when badminton becomes a extremist religion and all players just like owing their soul and body to the fans and must work all time to please them?

    All sports play to games and rules, and players may want a long leave just like anyone of us, and he was fined for doing so, having WR down for doing so, not seeded in competitions for doing so, all according to rules.

    Now he is give a wild card, also according to rules, just like many other sports and occasions. Why ppl just keep playing god and moral defending warriors, attacking from the least matured point of view just because a equally immature player whines out of complacency and afraid of not winning a major??? And now the draw works towards him, what more to complain?

    Badminton sport will die faster because of these, thank you.
     
    #70 Jonc108, Aug 6, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  11. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    I do, and why not? I tend to think that had LCW taken time off after the LOG and not qualified for the WC through normal means, the BWF would grant him a wildcard as well.

    Obviously LCW has not achieved as much as LD in terms of major titles, but I'd say his stature in the badminton world is no less than LD's.

    Edit: My whole point is that I see the wildcard as a form of recognition. Technically, any player with the talent can train hard enough and achieve what LD/LCW has, and thus be deserving of the wildcard. This is specifically regarding thunder.tw's point about the rules not being the same for all players. The rules themselves are the same, whether it is applicable to you, that's up to the player.
     
    #71 yamsyams, Aug 6, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  12. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    ^ So, only extraordinary champions are allowed a wild card?

    If anyone can be a LD or LCW, why is it that we have only one of each?

    And what do they have to do to be in a position to receive a wildcard?
     
  13. Loh

    Loh Regular Member

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    I think it probably refers to those players, in the view of either the BWF or the National Association, who are "deserving" based on their past performance.
     
  14. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    Not allowed, but deserving of. And yes, I believe so. I mean, you need to be something special to be deserving, no?

    Perhaps you've misunderstood. It's not that everyone can be at LD or LCW's standard, but if anyone is at their level and/or has achieved as much as them, then that player is deserving of a wildcard as well. As for the exact criterion, that is up to the BWF to decide really. For me personally, out of the current crop of MS players, only LD and LCW are deserving.
     
  15. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    ^ So would it be safe to say that your opinion is that, regardless of the circumstances, anyone else of lesser achievement/status would be considered undeserving of a wild-card?
     
  16. yamsyams

    yamsyams Regular Member

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    Would you care to shed some light on what these circumstances may be?

    But yes, apart from LCW, had any other player been in LD's shoes (ie, taken a break after the OG, failed to qualify for WC), I would consider them undeserving of a wildcard. (Within MS, I'd have to think a little harder about the other disciplines)
     
  17. mindreader

    mindreader Regular Member

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    I can't help but notice the irony of one attempting to lecture another on English all the while being unable to spell "charade." Speaking of fools...
     
  18. mrinalini

    mrinalini Regular Member

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    And he/she had edited that post, too. LOL! Not to mention that it should be a non native language.

    I'm surprised that with the disgusting oblique references to whores and pleasuring Lin Dan orally (on a family friendly forum, no less!) that this cretin hasn't been banned yet.
     
  19. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    That wouldn't matter now, would it? You appear to have -for yourself at least- set the bar on qualification for wild-card. ;)

    A wild card can be allowed to a player for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the status of the player and his/her impact on the popularity of the game etc. I personally have no problem specifically, with BWF issuing a wildcard to LD for the reasons they have stated or implied.

    However, that does not to my mind, set the bar for qualification. I think the wild card can in fact be used in very beneficial ways, and BWF is guilty of not being creative or bold enough in their use of this wonderful weapon. No surprises there.

    To your point: The idea that only the super-rich are eligible for a tax break only cruelly underscores the difference between the haves and have-nots. :rolleyes:
     
  20. gogor

    gogor Regular Member

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    wild card is for junior players.
     

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