Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

match scheduling is another factor to blame.

Discussion in 'Olympics LONDON 2012' started by kwun, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    39,280
    Likes Received:
    549
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    who's to blame if your house got burglarized? the burglar or the one who leaves the front door wide open?

    i wonder if others have noticed it. but some of us who has reviewed each days' proceeding might have noticed the way BWF scheduled the matches.

    in each group, consistently, the matches between the top players has been schedule to the last day, 7/31.

    what that means is that by 7/31. the top 2 pairs have played the lesser pairs and therefore by that time, they already qualified for the knockout round. the match between them is meaningless in terms of qualification but hold great weight when it comes to placement for the knockout.

    by scheduling it this way BWF leave the door wide open for the players/coaches to manipulate their placement, thus creating such a fiasco.

    if they had scheduled the top 2 pairs to play earlier in the tournament, this may have been prevented.

    yes, the burglars are wrong, but so is the one leaving the door open.
     
  2. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    9,825
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    @Hollanti
    Do you have the schedule before the re-draw? Oh wait that should be clear from the PAW odds [​IMG]. Also it is not unusual in this format to have the top seeds play each other last ...
     
    #2 demolidor, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  3. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    39,280
    Likes Received:
    549
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
  4. Teebs

    Teebs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    PhD Student
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    The players still cheated, the whole point is that the door wasn't left open because the rules were in place with the threat of disqualification, and hey look, they cheated, they got disqualified. Bad luck.

    The BWF are obviously not innocent in this situation because they appeared to set the precedent by ignoring countless cases of manipulations etc prior to this, but finally they have acted the way the rules require and the cheaters have been punished, so there can be little blame on their part. Perhaps if they wanted to be sure this wouldn't happen they should have made the qualifiers in second position random draw, but I think the aim behind giving smaller nations more games at olympic level was in principle a good idea.
     
  5. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,222
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Cheating??? While, they did not break any written rule... How you measure how hard they try, especially when you figure in the fatigue, mental/physical condition, good/bad day, opponent's strength, etc.

    In any sports, try to conserv energy and try to boost up your chance of winning the champion (now or in the near future) is part of the game. You watch NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL, etc... You tell me how many times you see 2 teams fight to death, when both of them already qualified for the playoff, or the game is already a total blow out? Instead seeing all the all stars, you see bench / rookie play below the par garbage minutes... Maybe we should ban all of them as well???

    A principle of a good idea for giving less competitive players a chance? That depends on which side you are on. Ask players like WSX, who miss the cut from CHN team, and older players like CH, CY, XXF, XXZ (as well as many players from MAS, DEN, KOR, INA, etc).... I am not sure they miss their Olympics dream, is a "good idea".
     
    #5 LazyBuddy, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  6. bifo the monkey

    bifo the monkey Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    York
    This system is not to blame. China have always match fixed to give other players better draws. Lin dan has given chen jin at least 2 walk overs to let him win a tournament to get more ranking points. There was also the olympics where LYB told one of the chinese players not to fight back if she lost the 1st end to another chinese player. Whatever happened they would cheat.

    If anything this was a god send, it finally showed china cheating with proof, they usually retire injured or pull out which they couldn't here otherwise they lose the whole tournament. so what they do is try to lose on purpose and revealed what they are really like.

    This system is much better, more matches get played, it gives other nations more of a chance and makes players play better when they are already one match down. Anyone else that says its to blame, tennis uses this system in the masters finals tournament and there has never been any match fixing there.
     
  7. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,222
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    When you are on the receiving end of common wealth, you surely think the system is good.

    Tell me how about player like WSX, XXF, XXZ, CY think, when they are top 10 or even top 5 players, but missed the Olympics. Do they love the system like you claimed? They got 00000000 match to play. They can only watch TV at home, with tears running down. They can only think their top 5 ranking is sh*t, when 100+ ranking players are dancing on the big stage.

    To me, eliminate top 5 or top 10, but welcome 100+ is the biggest cheat to begin with. Anything afterward is more "blood for blood" or "self defense". :-D
     
  8. mcdogoo

    mcdogoo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    uk
    You are right, the top two seeds should have never the chance to meet before the final, that is how other sports work I assume. Have they thoroughly tested the round robin system before the Olympics?


    Anyway, Yu Yang announces her retirement from badminton all together.


    Congratulation to Danish women's pair, what a result from just one excellent match.
     
    #8 mcdogoo, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  9. bifo the monkey

    bifo the monkey Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    York
    Wow your rude, no need to swear.

    at the end of the day as many countries as possible need to be represented otherwise it wouldnt be allowed in the olympics. I'm sure if the olympics would only qualify the top 30 players in the world they would but if they did no european country would vote for it in the olympics. I'm sure the players in the top 10 who didnt make it would rather have no chance at playing a single olympics and having badminton there than making it and find out by 2020 there would be no badminton.

    It's not a fair system for qualification but its the only solution. it's tough and people should accept it.

    Another thing is that i never mentioned anything about qualification process i only mentioned that it is fair for those who have qualified and in that case it is still fair.
     
  10. Teebs

    Teebs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    PhD Student
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    It's the olympics not the world championships. You don't qualify every player your sport has if you have a significant number of players are at the top. Arguably, there are already too many competitors from individual countries anyway.

    It's sad the players have to take the rap for what they were undoubtedly told to do though.
     
  11. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    6,950
    Likes Received:
    231
    Occupation:
    Cylon
    Location:
    BadmintonCentral
    yeah, order of play within the day is also another factor to blame.

    i believe heads will start rolling within BWF.
     
  12. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,222
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Lol...

    What a perfect excuse of "if I can not win, I will make sure no one will play". That's why I have to say the Olympics become such a joke.

    And do you understand the relationship and sequence of "cause" and "result"? You can not isolate a case by a flash of a second. You need to dig into the root of the cause. That's why there's difference between "self defense" vs. "intential murder".

    It's like, I try to beat you up, then you fight back, the kicked my a$$. The judge should look at the entire case, but not just the second that you won the fist battle, and throw you in jail instead.
     
  13. kermitvselmo

    kermitvselmo Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Olympics is obviously different from BWF World Championship.

    Calm down man, you are 34 years old yet so childish. Why don't you spend more time outside, socializing with real people rather than trolling in online forum. You uselessly direct your anger here, which sounds stupid. Why not contact BWF or IOC presidents directly and bark at them.
     
  14. Teebs

    Teebs Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    PhD Student
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Sorry who was killed here, was that no one? Then I do believe you are choosing invalid examples, an extension of Godwin's law in internet debates. Look it up, you're the perfect example of a troll.

    Precisely, grow up and get out, you may have an opinion, but unfortunately for us it about as valid as any speculation on the matter given that none of the decisions will be reversed, and your continued insistence on trolling wearies all involved very quickly.
     
  15. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,222
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Never mind, I am not sure who needs to grow up first, and forget about all the jealous to the success. Like many other threads, whenever CHN, LYB is on the line, it's usually end up with many bashing.

    Anyway, I will take the advice, not to waste my time trying to explain anymore. Personally, I think I see soooo many other "kids" or the so-call "grown ups" here, acting like god, and enjoying a moment of satisfaction, when others suffering lost, be it a bad performance, an injury, or biased rules.

    Overall, the history will tell who has a better career than others. I assume LYB, LD, and a few "candiates" will rank a bit higher than a lot of so-call "do not do it" saints here...

    At the end, may it's the time to let the racket do the talk, rather than flooding the forum... :)
     
  16. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    10,222
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    New York, US
    Sure, I am totally useless and stupid. I only have the guts to bark at you and many other "honest" ppl here. :-D

    Why don't you personally challenge LD, or Wang/Yu or eve LYB for a match, and see whether they can take you down with a fixed match or some team strategy? Not worth it, please...
     
  17. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    [0,0,0]
    Er... are you serious? I'm going to go with the burglar as the party to blame. But let me ask your question another way. If you walk past someone without keeping your hands up and they drill you in the head are you to blame for not protecting yourself or are they to blame for taking advantage of your carelessness?

    Oh crap, you where serious. I take it you walk around town with your hands in a guard position then?
     
  18. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,000
    Likes Received:
    12
    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Why do people in forums always have to label people they do not agree with as being trolls?? Is it a sign of immaturity?
     
    #18 twobeer, Aug 1, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2012
  19. thunder.tw

    thunder.tw Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    [0,0,0]
    Stop your immature trolling :p
     
  20. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    9,825
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    @Hollanti
    Same as the Super Series Final but also Group B and D hadn't been decided yet before the last group matches. Does it make any difference if Juhl/Pedersen had beaten Tian/Zhou in the second match instead of the third? Wang/Yu would still have to find a way to not win ... only so Tian/Zhou could still play for the silver not because it mattered for their gold medal chances ... imo.
    As far as the IOC's involvement I read the re-scheduling was done because the original draw had not taken into account for the group top seeds to play the bottom seeds first, with that apparently being an IOC requirement. Notice from the beach volleyball though they do have no.1 vs no.2 as the second match ...
     

Share This Page