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Discussion in 'Shuttlecock' started by Destricto_Ense, Mar 1, 2009.
I wonder anyone in aus selling them... hrmm....
This plastic shuttlecock topic is getting very interesting. In 1982, about 17 years ago. Someone file a patent for shuttlecock with 16 plastic feathers. The plastic feather can be enhance with different materials to make it stiff or extra stiff..etc. The plastic shuttlecock pple using today is seriously lack of stiffness and result to poor flight. Just comparing the latest YY 2000 plastic shuttlecock with any normal feather shuttlecock, anyone can tell the stiffness different. Sad to say that this patented shuttlecock does not appear in market today (maybe I am wrong). :crying:
i tried these last night, and i have to say, im very disappointed by them. they fly much faster than the 300s or 350s, but they slow down pretty fast as well. they are basically the same when it come to distance traveled... im not too much of a fan of them yet.. maybe it'll grow onto me.. but they do seem to be more durable even though they have the weird feather looking skirt.
but on the other hand, these are still plastic. they arent close to replicating feather.. not for awhile..
I have finally tried it today in training...
It looked very attractive to play with since Yonex has marketed it as it plays similar to feather.
The 2000 definitely flows faster than the M-300 and 350, which I didn't like that much. And honestly, like ray_mond, it is NO where close to being a feather due to it's speed (even I can say M-350 will be closer than a feather, since it's a tad slower than the 300 or 2000). When it came to durability, it was not that great at all. We used it as drill training and the bird barely lasted 45 mins, the tip and the cork were breaking severely.
Here Mavis 500 is rife esp the blue band. We like the green band better and is always short on the market. Now to get the agent to bring in a few Mav2K for trials is next to impossible. We can't even get the MV300/350 to try.
haha.. sems like they are focusing on "emulating" durability of the goose feathers as well
I have not tested the 2000, but doesnt it come in fast,medium,slow & 2-slow speeds ?!?! Was even 2-slow speed to fast??
Well yesterday, I tried the medium speed (and it was fast... so maybe 2-slow speed = 300/350 medium? someone should compare ) and honestly I didn't like it.. and when I played games with it, the skirt dies out fast... I am guess it is the design of it which makes it more less durable.
Wow, 300 and 350 are the common ones on the market, and you don't even get to try it? You should order from overseas.
Hiii... here in India Mavis 2000 is for 11 USD almost... not very costly if u ask me... but then Mavis 350 in itself is for 9.5 USD around.. Setting up a distributorship.. any takers.. .. kiddin...
1. hmm,i was the one trying to divert this debate to a proper thread U r just using my post to launch your own comment
2. where and when did i said before that future development of plastic shuttle is not necessary??? I did said before mavis should be used in some bwf competiton because mavis is just another equipment to compare skills of players. Just in tennis, neither grass, clay or hard court is better the other courts, just a different standard to compare skills of players. I also did said before that no plastic shuttle be equal to feather, and vice versa but this doesnt say i want to discourage improvement of plastic shuttles. Plastic shuttles already has many advantage over feathers, like durability and consistency. It is just flight profile that are different to feathers. We all like durability and consistency of any products while flight profile is just a personal taste and liking. Take string, nylon replace guts, u seem ok with that. Take carbon fiber, u seem ok with that in replacing wood and aluminum. Take polyurthance foam grip, u seem ok with that over leather grip. Take polyester shirts, +90% of us seem ok with that over the old cotton shirts. It comes down to at what point r u willing to change. So far, it seem we all have adopted alot of equipment change already.
As far as I remember you have not been aganist development (rather the opposite), but You have on a number of threads expressed the opinion, that plastic shuttles should be accepted (in their current form an quality) for BWF use, and that it really is not important "how" they fly, as it is "the same for both players" and not better or worse, just "different".. If the view that the trajecory and spin, weight, feel etc. is "good enough"..it would not make much business sense to spend lots of money on research on how to improve these shuttles...
At least to me, saying something is "good enough" is pretty close to saying that future development is of low prio..
The above is a good example, of how your argument, at least to me, comes across, like you are more than happy with the quality of the plastic shuttle technologies developed in the 1950:s..
If it is just as good just "different" why improve it??
strings and carbon development has always been based on IMPROVED perforamnce, if carbon rackets did not perofrmed better than wood rackets, I amsure we would still be playing with wood rackets (even though wood is a natrual resource)..
I am the first one to switch over to an artificial shuttle if it is IMPROVED over the current best material available (goose feathers+cork).
I am curios cooler.. Do you think any improvement of Plastic shuttles is "neccessry"? What improvements would you like to see, if any? closer trajectory to feathers or keep the pattern of Mavis 300 at your altitude as the reference standard? Better durability than Mavis 300?
What is your take on Mavis 2000? If they fly more like feathers but are less durable than Mavis 300? Which shuttle do you then prefer the more long-lived Mavis 300 or the more "shorlivet" more feather-like trajectory 2000 ??
yeah i tried medium speed too. i forgot to add, the leather on the cork and the cork itself does die fairly fast. in fact, one of the blue ribbon on one of them started falling off half way through ..
Me and Kwun discussed this and I still find that since the plastic shuttles have a flexible skirt they will continue to feel rubbery. That is why the shots dont feel crisp coming off the racket. If plastic shuttles were to gain momentum they would have to change towards a stiffer design literally imitating a feather. However, if they then imitate a feather's characteristics/stiffness, we will lose that wonderful plastic durability. I think plastic feathers would be good, not for their durability, but for its consistency since it would be from a more sustainable source.
yupp! But with advances in material-research maybe it can be feasible to produces an artifical that behaves lika a top-feather shuttle with great durability.. one could wish
maybe with all the advances of biotec a gene desigend mass produceabel feather could be "grown" at low cost for shuttles another option
I agree with twobeer. With the advancements of plastic tech and other synthetics The advent of a shuttle performing like a feather will see the light. Meantime I am waiting to try out the MV2K
just wishful thinking with your high tech viewpoint,
making shuttle is not like making AMD to perform like intel CPUs.
Even if high tech fibers could replaces feathers, it still wouldn't feel and fly like feathers. Why? because old school generation still want it to feel like feathers. Ask why Coke can't make diet coke to taste like regular classic coke cola. If you're trained in feathers, u would still want to play feathers over a $100 high tech synthetic shuttle in competitions. Improvement in plastic shuttle would only improve the $/performance ratio, it can't duplicate feather performance. Every player has their own $/performance ratio threshold. For pros when $=0, that ratio is irrelevant. Yonex and other equip. makers know when to stop improving. Even tho i have said dont stop advancement in plastic shuttle design, sadly, the equip. makers will halt improvement at certain point.
Unless you know the future you cant really say this is a fair statement. I can already tell you that you may be playing with partially artificial shuttle that you weren't playing with before, and if you couldnt notice the difference then a 100% 'plastic' shuttle could be possible! The part im talking about is the cork. There has been several companies which have started to shift to artificial cork.
True that some naturally occurring resources are nearly impossible to duplicate, such as gut tennis strings, but like the others said with technology advances you just dont know what the future holds. Case in point, ZyMax strings are starting to become popular as they have been in development for a while and are now showing to be a viable alternative.
Companies like yonex know if they ever stop advancing equipment design, they will die. They made new plastic shuttles this year, and they also came out with a new feather line as well. With the global climate moving towards a new 'green' perspective the reason for producing artificial isnt just for cost, but to be 'green,' renewable and clean.
1. *cough* *spit* *sputter*
Isn't feather shuttlecock came before plastic shuttle of the 1950's. I recall that badminton was standardized back in the 1800's? isn't feather shuttles are more ancient?
The basic regulations were drawn up in 1887. In 1893, the Badminton Association of England published the first set of rules according to these regulations, similar to today's rules, and officially launched badminton in a house called "Dunbar" at 6 Waverley
2. Good point indeed. Plastic shuttles (ie mavis 300+) improvements are in durability and consistency over feathers. Don't these improvement count? Sure it didn't improve over the feather in feel but isn't 2 out of 3 pluses considered significant improvement? Feather shuttle has only one thing going for it, the feel. This take me to our example of nylon string over gut. U said we accepted nylon string because it's an improvement over gut string but isn't this analog to plastic shuttle? Nylon improvements were in durability and consistency catergories but it definitely doesn't feel like true gut but yet, we got 99.99999999999% acceptance on nylon string. Your parable is a bit weak here.
3. the answer is E-zzzzzzz. It's not high tech or advance material. Since the cost of manfacturing mavis (vs feathers) is so low (by my estimate), drop the price of mavis, say by half, and watch the big shift to plastic shuttle. If u want a gigantic shift, drop mavis price by 75%.
mavis 300 or mavis 2000? i havent tried M2000 yet because i haven't pick up a tube yet. My gut feel is same as your or any feather players, stay with what i'm familar with, which is mavis 300. That's why i have no urge to try M2000.
1. i believe myself enough to post my beliefs in BF that would last for eons If i'm wrong, i would make a note of it here as well. i don't run and hide.
i do know that both feather and plastic (mavis) shuttles contain both natural and synthetic materials. The key difference is still in the skirt construction and material.
I play mavis not because i can't tell the difference between feather and mavis. It is me who is debating with all the feather proponents in BF. Surely i won't attempt to go on debating this topic under numerous threads with feather proponents if i couldn't tell the difference between feather and mavis. i would have lost in the first round.
synthetic cork is not new and duplicate cork performance just as well. It just comes down to cost. I also made a post (in other thread) about wine industry is switching from cork to screw/plastic caps. Wine industry (old thinking) resisted but educated wine buyers insisted screw cap. Screw cap is winning.
2. point is, it's still not the same feel.
3. i didnt say stop and close shop. I said or what i meant was yonex know when to stop (step on the brake) and when to accelearate (gas pedal).
What do you consider the best yonex plastic shuttle then and how much are they in £s please
(sorry for being slightly off subject)