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Mixed responses to 21-point rally scoring system

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by ants, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. ants

    ants Regular Member

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    TheStar Dec 11

    KUALA LUMPUR: There were mixed responses from the Olympic Games gold medallists on the International Badminton Federation’s (IBF) move to try out the 21-point rally scoring format in all world ranking tournaments from February next year.

    Yesterday, Indonesian couple Alan Budi Kusuma and Susi Susanti, who were the 1992 men’s and women’s singles gold medallist at the Barcelona Games; and the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games women’s singles champions Bang Soo-hyun of South Korea tried out the system during the official opening ceremony of the new IBF headquarters in Kuala Lumpur.

    Atlanta Games men’s champion Poul-Erik Hoyer-Larsen was also present but did not play during the simple opening officiated by Tun Dr Siti Hasmah Mohd Ali.

    Others present during the ceremony were IBF’s newly-appointed ambassador Sally Yeh of Hong Kong, local singer D.J. Dave, Indonesian actress Mia El Dabo and Indian Bollywood star Aftab Shivdasani

    Susi, who played in a mixed doubles match, took time to get adjusted to the new system.

    “I have not played under this new format before. I am just a little confused. There is no time to rest because the service changes hands at every point,” said the 34-year-old, who was inducted into the IBF’s Hall of Fame last year.

    Her chubby husband Alan was also on uncharted waters with the new format and said: “I have been out of touch of badminton for a while now. This is certainly very new for me. But it could be good if the change brings better coverage for the game.”

    The lanky Soo-hyun seemed more excited about the new format and concluded: “It only takes a little time to get adjusted to it.”

    The blue-eyed Hoyer-Larsen was more analytical.

    “I have played under this format back at home. I support this change. One has to react at each point and the level of concentration is very high. It certainly brings the game to a higher level,” he said. “The match will be shortened by 20-30% with this new scoring system. But I would have preferred to have five games instead of three.”

    Under the 21-point format, a point is awarded for a rally won and whoever scores the point holds service.

    A match will go to deuce at 20-20. The side getting two consecutive points wins the game. If the game is tied at 29-all, the side scoring the 30th point wins the game.

    For the doubles, the winner of a rally holds service but there will be no second server.

    Meanwhile, national chief coach Yap Kim Hock welcomed the use of the 21-point rally scoring for next year's Thomas-Uber Cup Finals.

    “It will be new for everyone and there is a chance for anyone to win the Cup. It will be an open game. We will concentrate on the new scoring format in February. We will focus on the All-England now (Jan 17-22),” he said.

    When IBF last experimented the seven-point in best-of-five-games scoring format at the 2002 Thomas Cup Finals in Guangzhou, Malaysia finished as the runners-up.
     
  2. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Sorry, a BIG SKIP on the new points format. The current one is just fine the way it is. At least to me from a game play stand point. As for incorporating commercials and/or rest periods, that's up in the air.

    One thing is for sure, keeping score in doubles will definitely be much more difficult.
     
  3. tze yang

    tze yang Regular Member

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    i agree with hoyer larsen this actually brings more concentration out of the players which would be hard at first but will soon be able to adapt, especially for taufik, and definitely 5 sets would be better than 3, i kinda still like the old system but if they make it 5 sets i really wouldnt mind
     
  4. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    What are the aims of the new scoring: I assume

    1) To shorten matches and possibly make them of less variable length

    This will definately be achieved: I believe matches will be shortened by at least 30%, as a by product there will also be more upsets since a lesser player is far more likely to outplay a seed for a shorter time. If it was true that Tv would be increased with a shorter format then fine, but I have seen no evidence of this, in fact most big TV sports take far longer than a badminton match

    2) Create more "big" points and more pressure

    The scores in matches will appear closer but once we get used to it big points will still only be at the end of games, and with only 3 ends I don't see any real gain here. There will be pressure due to the shorter format, this will probably lead to lower standard play since most players don't play well under extreme pressure.

    3) Easier to understand

    Most 10 year olds understand the scoring just fine, I really don't believe that with proper coverage it is any harder to score badminton than tennis, golf, gymastics! etc

    Imagine the scene , badminton england BE, are trying to get the thomas cup onto bbc.

    BBC"So are England likely to be in the semi finals?"

    BE" No, but we usually qualify for the final stages and could make the quarters and thats the same as our football team usually."

    BBC " what other countries will be favourites? USA, France, Germany?"

    BE" No, China , Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea"

    BBC"OK, who are the star names that will be playing? "

    BE" Lin Dan, Taufik, Chen Hong, Peter Gade"

    BBC"Who?"

    BE"But now we have a new scoring system, you score for every point if you are serving or not, and play to 21 x 3, this means the games will be 25% shorter so you could show the finals in about 3 hours."

    BBC" Oh that makes all the difference here's a six figure cheque"
     
  5. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

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    21x3 is inadequate, 15x3 is better in most respects and most of the reasons for the change reflect the IBF's ineptitude and lack of creativity.

    Rallypoint might bring out concentration or intensity in the players but having games go to 21 points is just stupid and generally not very fair if you consider different play styles..... if they want rallypoint then it should be like tennis sets of games for less points. 9 at the most.... i would prefer 5 or 7...then you could still have comebacks.
     
  6. smash_master

    smash_master Regular Member

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    having not used this format in a tournament yet i personally just dont like the sound of it...it might cut down the time of a match but what is it doing more players will be less likley to try high pressure shots ( i know i will be) cause well if they screw up they lose a point...well i dont like it but have to play with the new system at a local tournament this friday...i would hope that the IBF keeps it the way it was, 3x15, and does not permanetly impliment this new system of 3x21 rally point. Well thats just my quick 2cents on it...will have to see how i do on friday with this system.
     
  7. Dandirom

    Dandirom Regular Member

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    i have more fun playing with the old scoring system - it was the length of the games that added more fun to it. comebacks were possible, players were unafraid to take risks, and there was more variety in the shots players took. when using this new system all you see are clears and smashes -most of the time, that is. and if one of their considerations was to make badminton more appealing to more people...boy, even old timers are having trouble making sense of the new scoring systems, how would they expect newbies to fare when they tried it?:)
     
  8. jackson_ngo

    jackson_ngo Regular Member

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    by changing the points from 15x3 to 21x3, isn't it demanding more stamina and time??

    Why are people saying the new scoring system reduce the duration??
     
  9. seven

    seven New Member

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    No, it is changing from 3x15 serve scoring to 3x21 rally scoring.
    The new scoring system makes matches 10 to 50% shorter.
     
  10. jackson_ngo

    jackson_ngo Regular Member

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    hm... so in the case of doubles, do each side gets 1 chance of serve or 2 chances?
     
  11. seven

    seven New Member

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    just one serve.
    for precise rules, I suggest you search the forum, the information can already be found.
     
  12. jackson_ngo

    jackson_ngo Regular Member

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    i've got the idea of it, thanks for the info:)
     
  13. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Why are they always reffering to positive comments from EX.... badminton pros... Isn't it more interesting to get the views of CURRENT players..

    I don't think for a moment the guys playing the all england final this year will lack concentration, and would concentrate more if it was fewer rallies (teh effect of 3x21 rally scoring).

    We have already seen that European tournaments seem to stick to 3x15 (I applaud this!!)..

    I think Gades opinion for example should be taken much more into account than any ex-player...

    my 2 cents
     
  14. seven

    seven New Member

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    Maybe because they can't find any current player to defend this system! :p

    The old ones don't really bother as they don't play anymore, so they are willing to say what IBF wants them to say.. ;)
     
  15. Dandirom

    Dandirom Regular Member

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    ouch. lol!:D won't be long before taneepak reads this and posts a rebuttal.:) let me guess, a list of current players for the new system? hehehe
     
  16. sharkw

    sharkw Regular Member

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    I've ranted on this before, but I absolutely detest the new scoring system. Frankly, I think the people behind these changes at the IBF are a bunch of idiots. All these changes the IBF is trying out is in the name of getting more TV air time/popularizing the sport. The fact of the matter is, no scoring change will make badminton more watchable or popular among those not already following badminton! If anything, these changes are only serving to piss off dedicated badminton fans like myself.

    In addition, the IBF hasn't considered another aspect resulting from shorter games. Rather than encouraging more air time, these changes could very well short change viewers in that existing broadcasts will essentially be shorter and have less badminton! Somewhat competitive 2 set matches are going be on the order of 30-35 minutes rather than 45 minutes plus. Big comebacks from way down, which happened from time to time under serve scoring, will be very, very unlikely in rally scoring.

    If the aim is to increase the TV coverage and popularity of badminton, there are many other changes (mainly subtle ones to presentation) which can be tried out. But in the end, one has to recognize no matter how well you present the sport, there is the possibility that it's just not meant to be a hugely watched sport. Anyway I'll have to expand on my thoughts in another post sometime, but here are the details concerning TV broadcasts that should be looked at closely. Of course, a lot of these are up to the tournament organizer rather than the IBF.

    - camera angle(s)
    - background lighting (should be dark - it looks very clean and dramatic)
    - knowledgeable but unobtrusive commentary
    - court colour (I admit I prefer the classic green courts but at least I'm flexible here)
    - athlete attire (though the move to looser clothing standards is a good thing, there's something classic about the old all white, tucked in shirrt look - in any case the look to avoid is Kenneth Jonassen's sleeveless orange outfit with matching shoelaces in his match against Bao at the Copenhagen Masters)
    - sound (I don't think anybody's ever thought about this, but maybe it would be worth getting sound engineers to tweak the sound to make hits sound more explosive in broadcasts - one of the problems at the moment is that to a casual observer it looks like the players are just dinking the bird around, though we know better)
     
  17. alma66

    alma66 Regular Member

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    I have played both doubles and singles with this new system and i think it is OK. The older system is much better.

    Your service is much more critical now, because if you make an error on serve, the opposition gets the point.

    Its a shame that this scoring system will be in place at the Australasian U17 Champioships :crying:

    If China manage to win most of the tournaments with this system, the IBF will stick with it.
     
  18. serviceover

    serviceover Regular Member

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    not a difficult as you think, i have umpired this format and after a few points, its quite simple. I think it does make the game faster....
     
  19. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    It's more difficult than the current 15 point system but as you said, it's not that, that difficult once you play it a few times. Still, the new point system is something I will not use and oppose.
     
  20. manabu

    manabu Regular Member

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    to be honest, the new format ruins the spirit of badminton. I have seen to conservative gentlemen doing clears about 80% of the time, each serve high. What a boring game! :crying:

    so it doesnt necessarily prolong the duration of the game....
     

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