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My serve has been deemed illegal by my new club.

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by blundey, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. blundey

    blundey Regular Member

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    Been playing with this club 3 weeks now and the chairman has come up to me to tell me people have been complaining about my serve.

    Im open to criticism, but since ive been using this serve for a while now and in recent competition with umpires, im curious for a second opinion.

    The complaint: My motion is not 100% fluid and its been deemed im making two movement on flick serves.

    My observation: Im drawing back, going forward with the same momentum and at point of impact im using my finger grip to generate the flick. This finger snap/grip is what I believe they are complaining about, and im not sure if its because they get tricked out by it and get angry or because it genuinely is a fault.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    As long as it's a continuous motion (you don't stop) then it's perfectly legal. If you pause too long between back swing and forward swing or actually stop after you've started the forward motion then it's a fault.

    There is no rule about changing the speed during the forward motion.

    SERVICE

    9.1 In a correct service:

    9.1.1 neither side shall cause undue delay to the delivery of the service once the server and the receiver are ready for the service. On completion of the backward movement of server's racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2), shall be considered to be an undue delay;



    9.1.2 the server and the receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts (Diagram A) without touching the boundary lines of these service courts;



    9.1.3 some part of both feet of the server and the receiver shall remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position from the start of the service (Law 9.2) until the service is delivered (Law 9.3);



    9.1.4 the server's racket shall initially hit the base of the shuttle;


    9.1.5 the whole shuttle shall be below the server's waist at the instant of being hit by the server's racket. The waist shall be considered to be an imaginary line round the body, level with the lowest part of the server's bottom rib;


    9.1.6 the shaft of the server's racket at the instant of hitting the shuttle shall be pointing in a downward direction;


    9.1.7 the movement of the server's racket shall continue forwards from the start of the service (Law 9.2) until the service is delivered (Law 9.3);


    9.1.8 the flight of the shuttle shall be upwards from the server's racket to pass over the net so that, if not intercepted, it shall land in the receiver's service court (i.e. on or within the boundary lines); and



    9.1.9 in attempting to serve, the server shall not miss the shuttle.



    9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server's racket head shall be the start of the service.


    9.3 Once started (Law 9.2), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server's racket or, in attempting to serve, the server misses the shuttle.



    9.4 The server shall not serve before the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall be considered to have been ready if a return of the service is attempted.



    9.5 In doubles, during the delivery of service (Law 9.2, 9.3), the partners may take up any positions within their respective courts, which do not unsight the opposing server or receiver.
     
    #2 druss, Jul 5, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2010
  3. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    I would say a video of the action is required to make a proper judgement.

    By your description, they are obviously wrong - but you are biased somewhat!

    Saying it is the change of speed is totally incorrect, how else do you do a flick serve?!! However some people with flick serves may move forward & in the process of the flick subconciously wind back the pronation before relasing, hence causing the double motion.
     
  4. Andy05

    Andy05 Regular Member

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    Yeah I agree with jamesd20, I have seen people bring their racquet forwards but near impact twisting their wrist so the racquet head moves back slightly before flicking forwards.
    I think it would be ok if when you come forwards your racquet head was already trailing your racquet hand.
    I don't know if this would be preventing a single forward motion but it would annoy the hell outta me.
     
  5. alexh

    alexh Regular Member

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    Have your competitions used service judges, or just a single umpire? It's very difficult for an umpire, up in the high chair, to judge whether a service motion is correct, especially when they also have the job of watching that the receiver doesn't move early.

    From your description it sounds like you're doing OK, but there's obviously some factor that's bothering your new club members!
     
  6. jug8man

    jug8man Regular Member

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    either way... it sucks getting complained about your service. Long time ago i had a similar experience but with playing buddies. (turns out they were right. But it was hard for me to realize /admit it then)

    It will be very hard to prove that your serve is legal. Even harder convincing your club.

    My suggestion is if you enjoy / like the club you are at, you may have to swallow this bitter pill and adjust your serve accordingly. Other wise, no one will be having fun playing badminton there with you.

    It's not a court of law. it's a badminton court :D
     
  7. Capnx

    Capnx Regular Member

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    do your flick serve in front of the chairman and take positive advices from him. ask exacting what he sees that is incorrect, whether it's actually a motion that is actually against the rules or just something you do that's annoying the other players but still legal.

    like everyone else have already said, when you're serving (including flick) your entire motion needs to be fluid and forward, including elbow, wrist, and hand. You should NOT start with your arm moving forward and just before making contact draw your wrist/hand back to do a flick. that's breaking the forward motion
     
  8. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    In a backhand flick serve there is always a flick from the wrist at time of impact. As many will know a backhand serve should be delivered with the serving arm being twisted inwards or pronated which you then unwind (some call it rebound) at shuttle contact. This is required to have deception and is the key to give you effortless power to flick well.
     
  9. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Yes, this is the key, arm pronated is motion then a short serve is more like a push, but when flick serving the fast supination gives deception
     
  10. blundey

    blundey Regular Member

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    Thanks for your replies. I think that you may be right here...its a possibility this is what they have picked up on. It was just an umpire no serve judges on my comp...so that may be why it was not noticed.

    Ill have to play tonight and check what it is im doing......sounds like you guys have seen something to what im doing before...so ill get someone to check it out tonight at the NBC.

    Thanks peeps
     
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Actually, if you pause at all between back-swing and forwards-swing, it's a fault. That's how Law 9.1.1 should be interpreted (so say Badminton England, anyway).
     
  12. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    What i find harsh here is your chairman says there have been several complaints. I would respect the other players more for pointing it out and then then you could go to the chairman to discuss it. The way they have treated it then they have been playing you while they deem your serve illegal obviously getting annoyed in the process.

    From what you have written your serve does seem fine but it may just been some slight movement they don't like. Personally i don't use the serve to attack by flicking it. Instead i have developed mine where i can change direction without changing the fluidity of the motion. Annoys so many people but is perfectly legal. Found once by my 4th or 5th serve they both stood leaning towards the net. Long serve soon sorted that out :D

    But back to the serve. Sounds fine, like people have said show it to your chairman and see what he thinks of it. Its probably ok they just might not like getting fooled by it.
     
  13. blundey

    blundey Regular Member

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    I would have preferred it if the players that deemed my serve illegal to of told me after the games instead of btching about it behind my back. Obviously only being there for 3 weeks and having everyone talk about you is not very welcoming. But i guess they wanted to know for sure, if everyone agreed before making me aware.

    I think the chairman has also looked at my flick serve as the "complaint"s were made and has agreed with them. It has to be so slight though as they were all discussing it in great detail.

    I do another deceptive serve, a slice serve, which I know to be legal, and it seems they were discussing this too! Had they of said i cant do that either I would of told them to shove it up there bum :p
     
  14. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    While I understand what you're trying to say, unfortunately, there is actually no way to not pause at all... There is always the shortest of pauses between backward and forward movement, quite impossible to do it any other way.
     
  15. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    Is that so? Once the racquet has completed its backwards movement it must move foreward in a continuous movement with no pause. Even the slightest pause when moving the racquet foreward is easily discernable to the receiver because any pause will upset his concentration and can be disruptive. It is jerky to the trained eye of the receiver. Of course it is not only possible but rather easy to not pause between the backward and foreward movement.
     
  16. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    I guess it depends on how fast the motion is to determine if there is a pause or not. A quick motion back and forth would not notice but a slower yet fluid motion may look as though there is one.
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    A back to foreward movement serve is fine. But a quick backward to foreward, then backward and foreward again is a fault. The first has no pause in between, the second is a "double" stroke similar to some deceptive strokes that better players use for deception and also increased leverage.
     
  18. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    What they are getting at with the pause is a discernable pause between backward & forward motion. Naturally there is a point in time where the racket is not moving, but whether or not th pause is large or not depends on the speed of the backswing.

    It is usually quite easy to tell or not.....
     
  19. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Once the racket starts to go forward, it cannot stop until it hits the shuttle or it is a fault. Otherwise: all good in the hood - you can use variations of speed and direction all you like.
     
  20. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    Personally i avoid it all together as i don't do a backswing, i always felt drawing the racket back put me off the serve but thats just me.
     

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