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My serve has been deemed illegal by my new club.

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by blundey, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That's no longer true. The following is now a fault serve:

    Backswing -- discernible pause -- forwards swing

    BE are crystal-clear about this: they give that as an example of a fault serve in their videos on badminton.tv
     
  2. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Yup the rules changed to talk about service motion being continuous. The definition of the service motion was when the racket starts to come back.

    The ambiguity is the "discernable" bit. But IMO you can see the rhythm & if that rhythm is disturbed, then its a fault.
     
  3. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I'm now wondering if my serve is "suspect" - I don't really "address" the shuttle before I hit it (that is, I don't go "back-forward"); I just hold the racket about six or eight inches behind the shuttle and play through without a backswing.
     
  4. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    The discussion so far has been based on when the racket makes a backward forward motion but based on the written rules there s nothing saying that you have to move backwards first. I think the service has started at the first motion of the racket once it has been placed behind the shuttle regardless of whether that's a backward then forward motion or forward motion only.
     
  5. druss

    druss Regular Member

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    Exactly what I was getting at... so in response to taneepak... yes that's so. When ever you change direction of something there is always a slight pause as you can't go from one direction to another direction instantaneously. The wording of "delay" has the following definition:

    –verb (used with object) 1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone: The pilot delayed the flight until the weather cleared.

    2. to impede the process or progress of; retard; hinder: The dense fog delayed the plane's landing.


    –verb (used without object) 3. to put off action; linger; loiter: He delayed until it was too late.

    Even if you don't "delay" the service between the backward and forward motion there is always a point when the racket is not moving.

    As to whether that "distracts" the opponent... well I guess that depends on the opponent.

    Keep in mind that many of the rules are open to the interpretation of the umpire and each individual player. I'm not advocating a 1-2 second delay between the motions but you can't instantaneously change directions either.
     
  6. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    There you go blundy, you're service is retarded :D :p
     
  7. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Someone will probably correct me, but it is still legal. The rules don't say there has to be a backswing. They say the serve is started when the serving motion begins. In your cse your motion begins at the back & only goes forward.

    I find it hard to believe you have no backswing though, it would look most odd....
     
  8. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    I don't either, its just the way i serve. I just flick it over the net with different degrees of force. For me a backswing gives an idea of what you are going to do.
     
  9. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    Exactly - that's why I did away with mine;).
     
  10. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    That wold give it away to me. The backswing and forward swing should be the same for wherever the serve is going (straight/wide/deep/short & combinations thereof) the only difference should be the "flick" at the ends, which gives the direction & power (if neccessary)
     
  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    That's legal. There's no requirement to use a backswing; but if you do, you must not pause before making your forwards swing.
     
  12. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    How can you not pause before you do a forward swing then? Its one fluid motion forwards, what counts as a pause in this case. I suppose if you stand there for 10 seconds not serving then fine but what would be a delay in this case?
     
  13. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Easy answer. If your backswing has a circular path and then goes forward, it will not pause....;)

    But gong back to the original question, a video of the "illegal" serve would be extremely helpful.

    I pick up a few clues that the club is actually not a very high standard club.

    a) collective voice given to the chairman of the club i.e. there is doubt within the other players

    b) new kid on the block in the club

    c) OP is in UK.:)

    So I say, enjoy the game, cope with a disadvantage, get better and perhaps move on when you outgrow the club.
     
    #33 Cheung, Jul 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2010
  14. Smithy88

    Smithy88 Regular Member

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    What i mean is if you just place the racket between you and the shuttle then hit what is an illegal pause. That is different to placing the racket, moving back and then moving forward.
     
  15. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Are we going round in Circles? Reread the thred and posts have indicated what is a "discernable pause"

    Oi! a bit harsh!:D

    Regarding backswing pause. It is true it isn't pausing, but there is a point at which its velocity (movement in a particular direction) is zero

    The rhythm of th forward & backward motion must be linear IMO..if the back swing is fast then stops then moves forward then it is illegal. The faster you move back the quicker you must move forward.

    I agree it is ambiguous when written down, but (as stated in previous posts by several members) it is easy to tell a pause in real life...
     
  16. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    I think the "no-pause" rule must be there to stop the server getting a cheap receiver fault; a couple of the lads I play with occasionally use an exaggerated "hold" to get the receiver to, quite literally, fall off balance. I suppose it's to the service judge's discretion as to what constitutes an "excessive" hold (but to be honest the premitted height of the strike seems to vary widely across the judges, so why not this?:)).
     
  17. GameGod

    GameGod Regular Member

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    A video would be needed to make an accurate response.
    However, if your serve is one continuous motion then it is legal. Nonetheless, you cannot be trusted to judge this yourself on your own, and it is really at your club's discretion. But, if you have played in a serious competition with a genuine umpire dedicated to your court itself (instead of just a standing umpire) and they declared that your serve was fine, then it is safe to assume that it is OK.
     
  18. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    If others see your flick as "making two movement on the flick" then they may have something there. You cannot be your own judge ; that is why they have umpires.
    If you are so sure that you are right and the others wrong, how about posting a video of your flick serve showing a complete game together with the incident in which you are called for a flick fault.? A video of your flick that is not related to the time your flick serve is called a fault is not good enough for us to judge.
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Then you should change to placing the racquet first, the positioning the shuttle to reduce ambiguity
     
  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    But the rule does not state the movement must be in the vertical linear plane. Hence a slightly circular movement on the change from backswing to forwrd swing will enforce the legality of the serve...
     

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