Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

New Scoring System (21-Rally point system)

Discussion in 'Jonas Rasmussen Forum' started by MikeJ, Dec 26, 2005.

  1. MikeJ

    MikeJ Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    IT Consultant
    Location:
    Manila
    Hello JR! :D

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! :D

    I noticed that the topic of the new 21-rally point system vs. the 15-point system has elicited very emotional posts (from the badminton forum members). Given that this is currently a very hot topic, I would like to ask for your opinion regarding the new 21-rally point system:

    1) Which do you prefer? The new 21-rally point system or the 15-point scoring system?

    2) Were you consulted/asked by the IBF about the proposed change? If not, who among the Danish team / DBF were consulted?

    3) Do you know how the other top players (from Denmark and other countries) feel about the 21-rally point system?

    4) What changed, if any, would you want the IBF to implement in order to make badminton more popular?

    I hope you're doing well. Thank you for your time. :D
     
  2. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    I really hope professional players will speak out against this new system

    I honestly dont want to watch it, or have to play it....(Ever)...... :crying:
     
  3. okoman

    okoman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    21 point system

    Yeah 21 point rally system would take away a lot of the strategy of the game. Maybe it will be better for specators though, since every point counts all the time (more offence maybe???). Every league wants more offence (ie. the NHL)
     
  4. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    after getting a chance to watch several matches under the new system

    The action is fine...but why wouldn't it be there wasn't anything wrong with it in the first place.. badminton is an awsome sport period.

    the problem is the game is alot shorter and the pacing seems alot less professional - what I mean by that is there is something to be said for the difficulty and duration of a sporting event and its far too short.

    2nd the games are over before they are over ... in one match of women's doubles Korean played China and the match ended with scores like 21-11, 21-13 ...but the match was over long before the score showed it and there is very little chance of a comeback - it borders on the edge of human impossibility - great strides in effort and concentration amount to great comebacks but there has to be a little room for mistakes even so.... with this system you would have to win every single rally in order to come back.

    3rd. I DONT WANT TO PLAY with this system... ever. I am not a great player by any means in my community but I would like to learn and this change is seriously undermining my efforts by changing the game too drastically.... some people say I will get more points in a game against a better player, I Don't Care, I dont' feel those points will be earned. I have yet to learn how to win many points on my serve, but I feel this is how the game should be played and I want to overcome this obstacle in my own game..... not get free points on every other rally only due to my opponents errors.

    4th. Alot of players and coaches are speaking out and I sincerley hope Mr. Rasmussen will too...
     
  5. okoman

    okoman Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver
    rally21

    Dont get me wrong, I agree with you, I am just saying it seems to be the trend in professional sports to take all the strategy out of the game and increase the speed and offence.
     
  6. quik_silver

    quik_silver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Toronto,Ontario
    My friend said, it's more exciting. And I think the games are abit too fast... In my HS league, we have something call "OFFSAA", we have to play up to 21 just for that tourney only. But we don't get points for service overs.
     
  7. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    its not more exciting .. and alot of the drama of that the 15x3 system provides is now gone.

    after watching the copenhagen masters which was 15x3 and several 21x3 matches ...the trial system is far too short and most of the negative things ppl are saying about it are true.
     
  8. coops241180

    coops241180 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    E-commerce content co-ordinator
    Location:
    Lymm, United Kingdom
    yeah - i think it's quite dull compared with 15x3...

    i watched some vids of the world cup which was 21x3 rally and some of the copenhagen masters 15x3 serve... and copenhagen masters is by far the better..

    it's all about the comebacks..

    Coops
     
  9. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    To be honest I've seen some amazing play under 21x3 ...but its not as if I havn't seen amazing play under 15x3 ... the one thing thats missing with the *trial* system is the dramatic finishes

    there were several very dramatic finishes to matches at the copenhagen masters...your right about that, I heard they used 15x3 in protest of the trial system ... i'm so glad they did.
     
  10. wedgewenis

    wedgewenis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    To be honest I've seen some amazing play under 21x3 ...but its not as if I havn't seen amazing play under 15x3 ... the one thing thats missing with the *trial* system is the dramatic finishes

    there were several very dramatic finishes to matches at the copenhagen masters...your right about that, I heard they used 15x3 in protest of the trial system ... i'm so glad they did.
     
  11. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    6,527
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Designing and producing quality feather shuttlecoc
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Maybe Jonas is not commenting yet, at least until he has played a sufficient number of games from now till the coming Thomas Cup. A very wise man, indeed. :D
     
  12. seven

    seven New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Computing Engineer
    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    In fact, it is only that JR hasn't connected to BF recently. (his last post was in novembre)

    But I was surprised our favourite IBF policy defender hadn't yet got into this thread! ;):p
     
  13. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    109
    Occupation:
    Warehouse dogsbody, Stringer, Panda reseller,
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    This a typical tactic when a sport is trying to acquire new fans i.e. make the sport more "exciting" for TV purposes. Also typically, this new format alienates some of the sports existing fan base.

    Personally, I think the new scoring system is a joke (no less than Gail Emms was completely confused about where she should stand on service points) and my club will NEVER adopt it. It makes games shorter, but diehard fans LIKE long games. Imagine if chocolate bars were suddenly cut in half before they were sold...

    In my opinion, if you didn't like badminton to begin with, a daft new scoring system will not convert you. After all, how many people have you heard say "Oh, I like badminton except for the fact that it goes on too long..."?

    P.S. Have any of you heard about this proposed modification to the serving rules which would allow the racket head to be ABOVE the level of the hand? If this thing goes through, nobody under 7 feet tall will ever reach professional level!
     
  14. White_Gemini91

    White_Gemini91 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Auckland
    Answers for MikeJ

    1) I think i would prefer the new scoring system for singles ONLY, but i want the old one for doubles and mix!

    2) i wasnt consulted, and dunno wot u talk abt lol

    3) YEa sum ppl

    4) Maybe more shows of badminton onTV ~
     
  15. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    11
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Just my opinion on the new 21x3 scoring system

    I posted a comment on this topic to another thread, and later found this thread. So many replies and so many viewers for this matter. So, I thought I will cut and paste my comment and post it here too.

    My comment is that I hope and wish that badminton will become a popular sport to watch and to play. I mean to play as a social and/or as a club activity, not just as a competitive sport.

    So, if you are asked to vote, please consider not just for the pleasure of watching Top International Matches, but for the playing at the social and club scenes. And before the Professional Players vote, they must not only think of becoming champions. They must also think of earning enough Prize Money during their career.

    I hope the 21x3 system will stay.

    When I play the new 21x3 system, I try to play my best shot/stroke every time. There is a lot of pressure... that is, if I want to win. It does not matter whether I am serving or receiving at the start of a rally, as I know a point will be awarded at the end of that rally.

    When I play the old 15x3 system, I need only to play my best shot/stroke when my “equally skilled” opponent is serving... so as to prevent my opponent from adding another point to his score. I can relax a bit when it is my service to start the rally, for if I should lose that rally, no harm is done, as long as I get back the service.

    I think many experienced players know what I am thinking and saying. And if this is true, then the player with more stamina(assuming same skill) is more likely to win with the old 15x3 system, because the fitter player with more stamina will try to prolong the game to drain to energy of the less fit opponent.

    So, the fitter player is more likely to beat the less fit player(assuming same skill).

    In my competition days, when I wanted to beat players of the same skill as with me, I spent hours in fitness & stamina training. By doing so, I could even beat players with slightly better skills than me, using the above strategy.

    My question is “Do we want just skills(in terms of strokes, footwork, etc) to determine the better player?” Or, “Do we want skills and fitness(both combined) to determine the better player?”

    Let us rank the Skill Levels as S1(Lowest) to S10(Highest).
    Also, let us rank Fitness&Stamina Levels as F1(Lowest) to F10(Highest).

    Assuming all other factors are similar, in the old 15x3 system, Player A(with S5+F5) could be equal to Player B(S6+F4), or Player C(S7+F3), or Player D(S4+F6), or Player E(S3+F7), etc... Of course, this is very general, for in a match, there are so many other factors involved, namely; tactics, home ground support, accustomed shuttle speed, court surface, lighting, climate, etc... that we can go on forever...

    In the social scene, I also vote for the new 21x3 system. It allows better matches between man and woman, between father and son, even between grandfather and grandson, etc...

    In the club scene, I also vote for the new 21x3 system. It does not allow better doubles players to monopolise the court. We have seen better doubles players playing against weaker opponents... their game lasting forever, because the better players control who to service and who to score points. So very unthoughtful of them.

    But, you guys might not realise this... if your club(say, playing a 3-hour session) is to use the new scoring system, you will still play the same amount time on court, that is... instead of playing 5 games of the old system, you might be playing 10 games of new system. Because the games are shorter, you will play more games within the same time-frame. And as I said about stronger doubles players now not allowed to monopolise the court, you could even play up to 12 games each.

    However, in the professional scene, it is up to the present professional players to decide. They should vote how it should go, bearing in mind, their professional income.

    I support IBF in trying to make our Badminton more television-friendly. If there is allowance for television to have commercial breaks, like in Tennis, then Badminton will(or might) be televised more.

    Price Money for our Professional Players could be in the $Millions, instead of just in the $Thousands at the moment. May be Badminton could overtake Tennis, if we allow some television money to flow into our sport.

     
  16. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    13
    Occupation:
    Surfing, reading fan mails:D, Dilithium Crystal hu
    Location:
    Basement Boiler Room
    chris@ccc, u had presented some valid reasons for supporting the 21x3.

    Personally, i do agree that the 21x3 is more suited for social and club plays as i too had witnessed inequality of court time by certain players. The 21x3 will allow faster turnover. Also recreational players are usually not great in fitness so in general, this class of players can enjoy more of badminton if they just focus on skill and power aspects of the game.

    At pro level tho, i'm less supportive of the 21x3. Why? because a pro should allow to use all aspects of human ability to beat his/her opponent. By de-tuning the stamina aspect of the game like using 21x3, we would reduce one feature of the game. Yes, maybe some audience just only like to watch power and stroke skills and has no patient to watch the stamina attribute of the game but then we are changing the game to suit audience who were not keen to badminton before. We have a dilemma here.

    I think i had said this before in BF, one option is to make the neccessary changes to boost audience and participation into badminton. Once these people appreciate badminton, they will come to know what badminton really was and at those future time, IBF can decide if we want to go back to some of the traditional ways. I had also said that to attract more new comers, IBF should sanction some lower star tournaments using nylon shuttles.
     
  17. White_Gemini91

    White_Gemini91 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Auckland
    Reply to Chris

    Well, i quite like what u've said. I, also want badminton to be a worldwide known sport and a very entertaining sport, because i know people who doesnt actaully know what badminton is. I quite like the new scoring system, as it gives chances of the player for improving their accuracies, their concentration and know their mistakes. However, i think sometimes itz gonna be really annoying for players who does alot of mistakes.. and it really sucks for making a mistake and then letting the opponent have the point. But then again itz something new and good for the player to get more consistent at playing badminton.:eek:
     
  18. White_Gemini91

    White_Gemini91 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Auckland
    :confused: well.. whats the reason for attracting more audiences, if its only for players that makes the dilemma? I dont see a point in changing the traditional scoring system if itz only becoz of having more audiences watching..
     
  19. olle_whitehead

    olle_whitehead Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    hawkes bay NZ
    new scoring system= awful

    no point and i hate the person who made the decision to change it all i can hope for is that enough people will complain about it and it will be changed back
     
  20. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,000
    Likes Received:
    11
    Occupation:
    computer
    Location:
    Sweden
    Why not make 2 disciplines..

    a) Open Traditional badminton trounaments and pro circuit using 15x3, feather shuttles.

    b) Alternate-rules badminton trounaments and/or circuit using 21x3 and plastic shuttles..

    Then audience could vote with their feet (let the market decide :) )

    I see no problem with different flavors (just as there are grass and clay tennis which are very different)...Just don't take away the game and rules most of us here love :crying:

    My only wish is that IBF starts thinking more commercially and pulls its collective mgmt head out of its a***.. and starts marketing badminton instead of just messing with the game format, creating confusion instead of excitemnt!!
     

Share This Page