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Over-the-shoulder crosscourt drop technique

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by riuryK, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    Hi guys,

    I'm very interested in the over-the-shoulder stroke (in some places it's called step-out). You know, that stroke from the forehand rear corner at shoulder height. One has to step out with the racket foot pointing to the corner, lock the elbow, and perform the stroke.

    From this position I can perform straight drop shots, and even have power enough to perform a deep straight clear. Unfortunately when it comes to crosscourt, I don't know the right technique. I guess a proper thumb grip should be used from this position, but since this grip will slice the shuttle, and the distance is so long, it seems to me somehow quite difficult.

    If you still don't know what stroke I'm talking about, please check the introduction of this Badminton England video, around 0:33, and check out the girl in white on the upper side.

    [video=youtube_share;yJ5zO0T9jgk]http://youtu.be/yJ5zO0T9jgk[/video]

    Here you go a photogram:

    overtheshoulder.jpg

    Any help, please? Thanks a lot in advance.
     
    #1 riuryK, Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    this requires some practice, as it is a no-look shot. if you do look at that corner you're aiming for, then you lose the advantage of surprise

    step out and plant your racket foot, but you have to be early to the bird so that you have the option and threat of a straight clear. if you're late, then it'll become a desperate shot and your opponent will bring his base closer to the cover the net

    the actual hit is a firm tap with the racket face aiming just a bit over your non racket shoulder
     
    #2 visor, Dec 20, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
  3. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    Hi Visor,

    Thanks a lot for your tips. What about the grip? Do you use a thumb grip, and slice the shuttle or am I guessing wrongly?

    Thanks.
     
  4. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    it's still a forehand grip

    no slicing, otherwise you'll hit your face! :eek: :p

    just a firm tap with a sudden stop, ie. no follow thru
     
  5. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    doesn't she slice it? i think you slice from left to right (so away from your face...;))
     
  6. Nauroa

    Nauroa Regular Member

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    I'm pretty sure I slice it when I hit that stroke. I can't account for the succesrate though. :p
     
  7. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    It's a fast sliced drop hit across the body. From where it is played in the example it is somewhat of a last resort shot. Some players often take the shuttle late in this corner, but by mixing up straight and cross drops you can keep your opponent guessing. If its taken late behind the body changing your grip would help achieve the slice
     
  8. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    tactically, that's just a poor shot choice, and more of a hail mary attempt.
    Even in your video example, it shows how ineffective even a well executed version of that shot is -- you're behind in the rally and execute a shot where your opponent can get it early and force you to run the full diagonal of the court, putting you in an even worse position (assuming you're fast enough to even retrieve the next shot)

    if you wanna practice this shot, you should also practice the behind the back smash defense as well. It looks great, and is also in the same category of "oh crap, I'm going to lose this rally so let me try something dumb and hope I get lucky" type shot.

    If you were serious about learning how to play better, your question would be to how to force your opponent deep into her forehand corner forcing a weak over-the-shoulder reply. LOL, this is the first time I've seen someone wanting to learn a shot that your opponent wants you to make, LOLOLOLOL.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    urameatball is right. It's a desperate shot played when you're totally out of position. As in the singles example above, it won't work as well, but in doubles this shot if unexpected can cause confusion and may even win a point.

    However, for utmost accuracy, please don't slice as in the example above. It'll be too high over the net and will be easily countered, which will put you in an even worse position as you'll have to cover the long diagonal.
     
  10. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    This is not a trick shot, it is not in the same class as a behind the back shot. It is commonly best played with slice, allowing the shuttle to be hit harder. The player in the example takes it particularly late, and behind the body, but all the top players play the shot at times, if necessary. You should practice this shot since you may be forced to play it.
     
  11. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    [video]http://www.youtube.com/embed/KiNtfoTzSzs[/video]
    I was just watching the LinDan & ChenLong match today and noticed that shot was played once...
    at 18:29, See what happens when Chen Long gets pushed back and tries that shot, LOL

    dlp, categorize it however you want, but when you're pressured back and forced to hit the bird from behind you, a cross drop is just dumb. Sure, you can sometimes get away with it... but then again, sometimes you can get lucky with a half court lob too :D

    practice that shot all you want, but it won't fix the fact that your opponent is making you scramble for shots at the back of the court, and that you're playing a shot that allow your opponent to continue controlling the rally.
    Or you can practice footwork and making wiser shot choices so you don't get pushed around by your opponent.

    I may be biased though, a major weapon in my singles game is to pressure the opponent backcourt and wait to pounce on lazy drop shots like those. this thread already shows it working well against international players... now imagine how well it works against lower level players (hint: REALLY WELL)
     
  12. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    Yes, I agree it's not an excelent attacking shot, but a defensive one. However you cannot just attack all the time against all rivals. In fact my thread should be something like "How to play and win like Lin Dan? Please help!", but I don't think anyone could help me with that :p

    I mean a high slow clear to the center rearcourt is also a defensive resource, but does that mean that one doesn't need to practise it?

    On the other hand, from that (bad) defensive position, I think it's one of the best defensive shots one can play, since the opponent very often fully commit to the straight drop reply. It's like the backhand: we all agree it's better not to play it, only when needed, but sometimes you're forced to, aren't you? Well, in that case very often I use to play a backhand crosscourt drop shot, and believe me, plenty of times I catch my opponent out of play since he/she is waiting the straight drop.

    So in all IMHO: is that stroke a good attacking resource? NO. Is it a good defensive stroke? Definitely it's one of the best, again IMHO.

    Thanks a lot guys for all your replies and great tips :rolleyes:
     
  13. alexh

    alexh Regular Member

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    On that occasion the shot wasn't well executed--it was too slow and too high. I bet Chen Long would usually play a much tighter drop shot than that; he just made a mistake on this occasion. (Most people make at least one mistake per match.) I'm sure you could find matches where people get out of trouble with (a well executed version of) the exact same shot. Or are you telling us that the world number 3 and his coaches are dumb?
     
  14. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    yup, the well executed version was what the original post illustrated, look what happened there, LOL. Again, it's a hail mary type shot. When you hit it, you hope god is on your side... and that your opponent has fallen asleep :D.
     
  15. jajvirta

    jajvirta Regular Member

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  16. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    Yes, it is. Exactly the same stroke. And here's another one from Lee Chong Wei vs Cheng Long in the semifinals of the French Open 2011, at 07'37"

    [video=youtube_share;0B8x4ypWH3o]http://youtu.be/0B8x4ypWH3o?t=7m32s[/video]
     
    #16 riuryK, Dec 21, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  17. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    both those cases are regular shots hit above head height, but behind the body, and makes covering the full diagonal fairly easy.
    the original post refers to shoulder height hits, which is performed when you're already in trouble in a rally, where hitting the cross with accuracy is hard enough, but covering the full diagonal even harder.
     
  18. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    Well then I'll redefine the original question: it doesn't matter if the shuttle's above the head or at shoulder height, the main point is that the shuttle in all cases is aligned with your body. Not behind like in the first example (I agree it's a difficult shot in any case), but not in front of you either.

    I mean when you're behind the shuttle, I have no problem to perform a crosscourt drop. In fact I attack the shuttle as if I wanted to smash in order to hit it in front of me, and hit a fast drop shot. No trouble there. I'm more interested when the shuttle's aligned with your body (to your right). The last two examples in fact. I find quite more difficult to perform a crosscourt from there. Maybe the point is changing the grip slightly towards a thumb grip. Just guessing.
     
  19. riuryK

    riuryK Regular Member

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    I have found an interesting variation to hit when the shuttle is behind you. It seems to be a very old book, but I've cut the photograms, and created a video sequence. The quality's poor due to the small pics, but I think you can get the point.

    Source: http://www.xbadmintontricks.com/2010/07/tang-xiahu-teaches-you-badminton-forehand-defensive-clear/

    [video=youtube_share;t9mdjegTK04]http://youtu.be/t9mdjegTK04[/video]

    Sometimes you may not be able to play a shot with shuttlecock before you overhead in forehand position when you are out of position. By the time you react, the shuttlecock is over you and running to the baseline. In the following steps, Tang XianHu shows you how to play forehand defensive clear and get back to the game.

    Footwork:

    In the centre of badminton court, start with right foot with a step backward to the right. Then left foot crosses over right foot with a big leaping step. Use three steps to get your badminton racket behind the shuttlecock, not your body as it is too late. Be aware that the last step covers quite a distance, so you need to stretch out your right leg with a leaping in your left foot. (See figure 1-9).

    Playing the shot:

    When you are landing your right foot, back swing your racket head from chest to near your right foot. (See figure 9). Stretch your forehand as far back to baseline as possible with forearm stupinated (rotating outward). This is to make sure that your racket is behind the shuttlecock. It is impossible to play the shot if your racket is not behind the shuttlecock. Forearm supinated will create maximum racket head travelling distance before hitting the shuttlecock and use forehand pronation to generate the power.

    From the above position, pronate forearm and hold badminton racket tight when hitting the shuttlecock.

    After hitting the shuttlecock, allow racket to follow through to your left thigh area. Be aware that your left leg retracts closer to your right leg. This is very important as it will help you to quickly shift your weight to your left foot later and start moving back the court centre.
     
  20. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    As I said, and as the example shows all the top players have to play this shot at times, again as I said the original example the shot was taken fractionally later than normal late and the opponent was early on the shot. The technique for lunging backwards and playing the straight and cross drop (with slice!) is included on Peter Rasmussen's excellent recent technique dvd.
     

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