# PAW 2008 (Info & Discussion)

Discussion in '2008 Tournaments' started by Sandy, Jan 13, 2008.

1. ### george@chongwei Regular Member

Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
Messages:
29,989
2
Location:
MIA
hmm, stop giving ideas about my group name!:crying::crying:
azabaz_ipoh, i think i will remain the group name as the same becoz this is juz the beginning, we are not yet on fire..
we will show them(other group) our power if we are on top form!
haha

#61
2. ### george@chongwei Regular Member

Joined:
Jul 12, 2007
Messages:
29,989
2
Location:
MIA
our group will not have some surgery operation

#62
3. ### azabaz_ipoh Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 5, 2006
Messages:
1,967
5
Occupation:
is second to badminton
Location:
Ipoh, Malaysia
hahahaha. i hope not.

#63
4. ### huangkwokhau Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
Messages:
18,470
34
Occupation:
sales & design
Location:
everywhere
if you keep losing ...yes..then you have to get surgery,....

#64
5. ### Dmitry Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 6, 2006
Messages:
1,124
0
Location:
Novosibirsk, Russia
Sandy, one more observation concerning the teams ranking. Maybe it's a good idea (for team race) just to sum up the ranking points earned by 3 top team members, but how are you going to calculate the team positions for every PAW competition? Using the ranking points table doesn't seem to be very convenient, as the PAW tournament results are updated many times (thank you!), sometimes a few times per day, and making these conversions for all the players...:crying: would be too boring... I guess you decided to use the system proposed by Loh: sum up the 3 top players positions. But sometimes this may give strange results...

The problem is that the rule "lower position - bigger ranking points" is obviously valid for a single player, but can be violated for a "sum of players" (team). Example: suppose team A has 1, 4, 6 positions, and team B has 2, 3, 5 positions. If we use the sum of positions, team B wins (10 over 11). But for the team race competition, team A wins! Indeed, team A would earn 4000+2600+2240=8840 ranking points, while team B would earn only 3400+2960+2400=8760 points. If madbad were finished #5 instead of #7, we would have now exactly this situation, DRM being team A and MAD being team B.

In some sense it may be even better (and funny): OK, you won this PAW tournament, but we got more ranking points - some kind of satisfaction. But if we want to avoid such confusions, I see only two possibilities:

1. Use the same ranking points system "within" every PAW tournament. I don't think it's a good solution, even the above "confusion" would be better.

2. Switch to a different team race ranking system, so that a team staying higher in a tournament will get more ranking points. On the other hand, we should take into account the different "weights" of tournaments (e.g. Superseries vs. Int.Challenge). One of the possible solutions - use the ranking table for teams as a whole. For example, now the team race table would be like that:
-#-.Pre#-.TEAM------------------ -Pts--. TRN
001.(___).Dream.Team.......DRM.. __4000. ..1
003.(___).Wonderful.World..WOW.. __2960. ..1
004.(___).Chong.Wei.Club...CWC.. __2600. ..1

However, I'm not sure this is the best solution. Frankly speaking, I even don't mind the current system as well. I simply want to stress your attention on the possible confusions that can take place in future. I believe, Sandy, your final decision will be the best one.

#65
Last edited: Apr 1, 2008
6. ### huangkwokhau Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
Messages:
18,470
34
Occupation:
sales & design
Location:
everywhere
You havea good point..........

#66
7. ### Loh Regular Member

Joined:
Oct 9, 2002
Messages:
15,362
423
Occupation:
Stock Broker
Location:
Singapore Also Can
One way is to separate the individual results from the Team results, so that the individual score points will not interfere with the Team standings that may lead to confusion. In other words, no conversion is necessary.

This would mean adopting the "SSS" (short, sweet and simple) method that was first proposed. Using the conversion method for team results may distort the Teams standings not originally intended.

Disagreements and arguments may follow as a result.

#67
Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
8. ### vching Regular Member

Joined:
Feb 24, 2007
Messages:
4,751
8
Occupation:
Student
Location:
Brisbane!
oh what have i done!

I missed the Polish International Challenge!

And btw, I have been reading through the whole thread, and still am confused about the PAW team rankings... How does that work?? :S

#68
9. ### Dmitry Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 6, 2006
Messages:
1,124
0
Location:
Novosibirsk, Russia
OK, does your "SSS" method mean that the team ranking points for Int.Challenge and Superseries tournaments will be the same? And if we want the tournaments to have different "weights", how would you do this without conversion?

#69
10. ### Loh Regular Member

Joined:
Oct 9, 2002
Messages:
15,362
423
Occupation:
Stock Broker
Location:
Singapore Also Can
To keep it SSS, no different weightage should be introduced for the different category tournaments. We should treat them all alike as we just want to ascertain which team performs the best at any tournament and how they fare in the long run, say after every 10 tournaments.

#70
11. ### Sandy Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 15, 2002
Messages:
12,100
6
Location:
Jakarta
After read your post, I just realize tha we got "new problem", we need Temporary Team's Standing to help us where is the position of our team. Need extra work, but I will to create this "tool", Temporary Team's Standing

The points is too big, looked complicated to count manually. Actually I tried to create the "New" Scoring System like F1 Ranking system with little modification. But we have a lot of tournament's categories, SS, GP Gold, GP, Chal, BWF Event.

I saw most of us counted Top-3 position for Team's standing, so I picked it.

I think this case also happened in F1 team's ranking, just in smaller points (10+5+3 vs 8+6+4)
Another alternative: use BWF Ranking system and divided by 100. It doesn't look different and force me do extra work to create new Ranking System.

By use same Individual Table, I don't need to create some new Ranking Points and create new link some of PAW's data, this way made me simpler to do job in PAW.

I want Team's standing doesn't look like Individual Standing, so I prefer to sum of best-3 position rather than use Individual Table for team.

#71
Last edited: Apr 2, 2008
12. ### Sandy Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 15, 2002
Messages:
12,100
6
Location:
Jakarta
You can create new group, 3-5 players and we take best-3 position for team's standing.

#72
13. ### huangkwokhau Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
Messages:
18,470
34
Occupation:
sales & design
Location:
everywhere
and your new group called Cha-Ching.... means..money..money

#73
14. ### Loh Regular Member

Joined:
Oct 9, 2002
Messages:
15,362
423
Occupation:
Stock Broker
Location:
Singapore Also Can
BTW, Dmitry, are you Russian or English?

The way you write is quite unlike any Russian I know of.

#74
15. ### Loh Regular Member

Joined:
Oct 9, 2002
Messages:
15,362
423
Occupation:
Stock Broker
Location:
Singapore Also Can
For more info, you can also visit the tread on the Polish International Challenge PAWs.

#75
16. ### huangkwokhau Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
Messages:
18,470
34
Occupation:
sales & design
Location:
everywhere
he is a russian..Uncle Loh

#76
17. ### Sandy Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 15, 2002
Messages:
12,100
6
Location:
Jakarta
Sorry OOT

I remember that PAW ATP Australian Open 2008's winner is Dmitry too. Is he same person with Dmitry in here ?

#77
18. ### Loh Regular Member

Joined:
Oct 9, 2002
Messages:
15,362
423
Occupation:
Stock Broker
Location:
Singapore Also Can
Hey team leader Rudy, let the man speak for himself, please!

#78
19. ### Dmitry Regular Member

Joined:
Sep 6, 2006
Messages:
1,124
0
Location:
Novosibirsk, Russia
Oh, you know some Russians... Do you play badminton with them?

Thank you for the compliment, but I know for sure my English is far from perfection. Do you really think an Englishman would write like me???

Oh, nearly forgot... Yes, I am Russian.

#79
20. ### huangkwokhau Regular Member

Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
Messages:
18,470
34
Occupation:
sales & design
Location:
everywhere
Team leader speaks behalf on his members,,,

#80