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Pro Players: How Much do they Lift, and How Good is their Cardio?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by OHMAHGAWDZ, Jan 24, 2012.

  1. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    Hello, BC
    Lately, I've been focusing a lot on my physical training, and I'm trying to figure out how much of each type of training I should be doing (distance cardio, intervals, and strength training). The dilemma I'm experiencing right now is that I've been focusing on strength training and gaining weight, as I'm naturally quite skinny, but I don't know the level at which I should lighten up on the weights and start focusing on speed and cardio. I want to get to a point where I don't need to worry about whether or not I'm strong enough, so that I can put all of my effort into speed and endurance.

    Which brings me to my question:

    How much weight are pro players typically capable of lifting, and how good is their cardio? I'm looking for specifics here, preferably. For example, do you know a certain international-level player's 1-rep max squat/deadlift/shoulder press/power clean (doesn't have to be a 1RM, could be 3RM, 5RM, whatever), VO2 max, vertical jump, 12-minute run distances, or beep test scores? Of course, any other stats or standards that you know of are useful as well.
     
  2. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    How much weight they can lift depends on the body weight. My suggestion is to focus on endurance training with 20reps with as much weight as you can handle.

    A alternative way to test your endurance is to do very fast shadow footwork from the base to all 4 corners. 2 lifts from either side and 2 all out smashes from the back corners and repeat.

    After 2 sessions I am out of breath. Used to be 1 then 1.5 now it is 2. Need to increase to 2.5.
    After doing this I can understand exactly why LCW slows down the game.
     
  3. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    thanks for the reply, rogerv2
    I'm a doubles player, and therefore need quite a bit more strength, and my endurance and speed are at a higher level than my strength is. I guess I should have been a bit more specific with my question: If I know I need to train strength for a while, at what specific point do I put strength training on the back burner again? In other words, how strong is strong enough for badminton needs? For example, once I can squat 2.5x my bodyweight, is that enough? (no idea if that's anywhere near correct, just an example of the information i'm looking for :p) I figured that world-level players' strength stats would be a good indicator of those requirements. Mathias Boe said in an interview with badmintonlife.com a few months ago that he was focusing on heavy, low-rep squats, so I'm guessing he, amongst other doubles players, have probably done max attempts at some point. So if anyone knows about what their numbers are like, that would make me very happy :D.
     
  4. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    As a doubles player, you will need smashing endurance to break down the defense. Assuming your technique is spot on, I dont see how getting stronger past a certain point is going to translate to better performance. Badminton is more of a technique and endurance sport rather than brute strength.

    However, lifting heavy weight is a feel good factor I cannot deny.
    Try as much reps as possible with the following. It will help you more than 1 rep max.

    Bench Press - 1.5x body weight
    DeadLift - 2.0x body weight
    Squat - 2.0x body weight
     
  5. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    Thanks for the recommendations. I don't plan on focusing on 1-rep max attempts very much, just once every month or so to check my progress. I agree that multiple reps are better for gaining strength, I'm only referring to 1RM as the best indicator of that strength.
    And I know that strength past a certain point isn't as helpful - what I'm trying to find is where that point is, so that I know when to change up my training. I'm sure that I'm not there yet, because my legs don't look like jung jae sung's. :p
     
  6. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Don't just focus on wt training itself. More important in badminton is the explosive power of the muscles. Look up *plyometric* exercises on YouTube to understand more.
     
  7. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Good recommendation. Check this out. Nice animation.
    http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/plyometricexercises.html
     
  8. visor

    visor Regular Member

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  9. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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  10. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Is this some kind of promotional photo shoot?
     
  11. george@chongwei

    george@chongwei Regular Member

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    No. It's not for photo shooting purpose. This is their serious pyshical training in gym during the chinese new year while i think most of our malaysian players still enjoying their local food delicacy and ang pow and keep putting on weight..:D
     
  12. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    I've done nothing but plyometric exercises in my badminton training for years. After starting weightlifting, I noticed a huge jump in my play level even though it was during the off-season when I wasn't playing very much. Like I said earlier, my weakest area is strength. I don't plan on becoming a bodybuilder or powerlifter, but taking one look at the Korean and Chinese badminton teams tells me that some weight training is necessary. Again, I'm not going to make strength training my main focus indefinitely - footwork and plyometrics are obviously the exercises that should be used for most of the year.
    For those who are interested, here's an article by a neurophysiologist on why heavy weights are a necessary part of an athlete's training cycle (including the methods of a world-renowned sprinting coach, and michael jordan's coach). This article is the main reason why I decided to start strength training in the first place.

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/why_you_need_more_strength
     
  13. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    You're approaching badminton like how 8-year-old kids approach car racing games.
    They only do speed/acceleration upgrades and forget about handling, grip, brakes, etc. Even though they have the fastest car after all the speed upgrades, their cars are next to useless on a track with turns and braking points.

    In your case, all you want is strength/cardio, and you'll worry about the rest when you've maxed out on those upgrades, LOL.
     
  14. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    You are the third person who has made the wrong assumption about my training. to clear the record:

    - I am still doing footwork training on days when I don't lift (3 days/week footwork, 3 days/week lifting)
    - I'm still playing and doing drills with my university team. My "handling, grip, brakes, etc" are still being taken care of.

    "all you want is strength/cardio"...other than plyometrics, which are done during my footwork training and badminton drills, what else is included in fitness training? What other category is there that I'm missing? And having a main focus on one category at a time is what any personal trainer would tell you to do. By focus, I don't mean "the only thing you're doing", but what you spend more energy and time on for a given training period. Periodization is a basic cornerstone of a good fitness program, regardless of the athlete.
    I already mentioned that I'm not trying to be a powerlifter or something! It's just that strength is my weakest area, and I would also like to bulk up A BIT. I believe I clarified this already.
     
  15. urameatball

    urameatball Regular Member

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    well, it's easy to mistake your intentions when you express interest to lift like a pro, and compare your physical attributes to pros.
    Then clarifying by wanting to bulk up A BIT.

    I read in an article Lin Dan and Michael Jordan can both run a 10k in 28min. My friend runs competitively and does 10k in under 40min, I've never run 10k before so I guess it'll take me over an hour, yet I'm much faster on court than my friend. I also jump higher than people with much bigger&stronger legs. So beware of using numbers and benchmarks as indicators... improving those numbers doesn't necessarily mean you'll be better on court.

    In other news, fat people tend to smash harder, so I suggest you eat butter and gain some fat, LOL
     
  16. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Your good advice is being overshadowed by your sarcasm ...
     
  17. Footwork_816

    Footwork_816 Regular Member

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    If those pictures above are what professional players really do to work out then their coaches have no idea what they are doing. One why is all I see machines and no free weight exercises? and two how come they are not doing big compound lifts that most athletes should be doing: squats, deadlifts, bench press, rows, etc. Also, if I was a coach I would not make them do many if any at all isolation exercises like bicep curls

    I haven't read the posts above so I'm not sure what everyone has recommended but I would follow the contrast method that you can read about here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online...contrast_training_for_strength_size_and_power

    This way you will get increased strength and be able to use your strength faster which will give you power. If all you did was strength work and no speed work then you would not see too much improvement. Its the reason someone can have a huge squat but be a lot slower than someone who can squat half as much. I would read a lot of the articles on t-nation. They have great information
     
  18. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    Agreed on the machine work. I would expect them to be doing a lot of squats, deadlifts, maybe even oly lifts? My only guess is that since their season is underway, and the all england isn't too far away, they're training endurance with the machines. Since machines and iso movements don't require much technique, there isn't the risk of losing form and injuring yourself once the lactic acid burn starts (again, just a guess). I'm sure there's a reason for it though, since the CBA would surely hire reputable trainers to train the best players in the world. It does seem weird, though. From what Mathias Boe said in the interview I mentioned earlier, the Danes seem to like free weights.
    Thanks for the article on the contrast training. T-nation is great. Everything is written by qualified and accomplished coaches and athletes. I frequently read articles (not sure if you read all the previous posts, but I actually cited one earlier), but I haven't seen that one before. Definitely looks like it can be applied to badminton, and I think I'll be working contrast training into my routine.
     
  19. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    I enjoy weightlifting, but badminton comes first, so the main reason why I wanted to know how much the pros lift is so I know when to stop gaining strength and focus on other things. As rogerv2 said, strength in badminton is likely only helpful up to a certain point, so my guess is that the pros are only strong enough to be able to do all of the movements their sport requires. I'll keep the strength vs court performance thing in mind - if I'm still gaining strength and not seeing a difference on court, I'll refocus my training/lifting program. That being said, I'm pretty happy with how much my increased strength is doing for me on court. Thanks for the info on running times, I guess I have a long way to go when it comes to cardio. I'd be at about 40 minutes for 10k. :(
    ...but having a big smash is cool, too. Can I run 10k in 28 minutes with a beer gut? :D
     
  20. Footwork_816

    Footwork_816 Regular Member

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    Lol yea I love t-nation, have been reading their articles for over a year now. Ehhh even if you were training endurance free weight would be better than machines. Only reason I can see is that they are scared of injuring themselves but that's a really lame excuse...Most pro's will take the benefit harder-to-do exercises can give and take the risk of getting injured which won't happen as long as you aren't being stupid.

    Another error I just saw is they are putting 25 lb plates on one arm and smiling...One it should be on both arms to prevent muscle imbalances which can cause injury and two if they are smiling the weight obviously isn't heavy enough to force the players out of their comfort zone and force their bodies to grow stronger.

    I wouldn't stop gaining strength or power if I were you. True it won't cover for bad play but it can always help and there is no real limit. Just make sure you have a good balance of both :)
     
    #20 Footwork_816, Jan 27, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012

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