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Racket position after smash?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Dave18, Jan 30, 2005.

  1. Dave18

    Dave18 Regular Member

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    After I wind up for a smash, and initiate it by snapping my wrist downwards, my final position of the racket is facing down on the floor.

    My friend says I will hurt my wrist unless I snap the wrist and hit the shuttle, then instead of the racket facing the floor, i should swing it towards my side.

    I hope I explained it well enough.

    Is my friend right?
     
  2. Yipom

    Yipom Regular Member

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    Yea that sounds about right. When i watch Pro plays, everytime they finish a smash, or any Big Strokes like a Clear, their hand ends up around the other side of their hip i.e. Rightys left Hip, left Hand right hip. hope u got that :p
     
  3. chickenpoodle

    chickenpoodle Regular Member

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    yep, your friend is correct.

    coincidentally, we just corrected a friend who had similar form this week.
    his larger overhand strokes always resulted in his hand being around his waist.
    not only did it look funny, but it was sucking a lot of power out of his strokes.

    when he began to try to fix it, he immediately said his shots began to feel easier.
     
  4. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Are you using pronation (forearm rotation) on your forehand strokes such as the smash? Since you say that you "snap the wrist downwards", you may not be pronating. Pronation is more important than "wrist snap" in generating power. If you pronate just prior to contact & then keep pronating during follow-thru, the racket face should not end up facing the floor as you descibed.

    If you are not using pronation, I suspect that you might also be using a panhandle grip for your smash. ​
    Check the thread the talks about LJB's smash grip.​
     
    #4 SystemicAnomaly, Jan 31, 2005
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2005
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    it depends on when after you hit the shuttle. immediately after contact, it is natural for the wrist to pronate and then the racket points downwards. however, for followthrough, you should naturally let the racket fall to the side. otherwise you may hit yourself...... ;)

    maybe you should clarify what you mean exactly.
     

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  6. Dave18

    Dave18 Regular Member

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    I'll try to explain my form more clearly.


    When I get ready to smash, my right foot goes back, right arm goes up, then my right arm pull backs (elbow is facing up now), now, at the highest point, my wrist is snapped down and my forearm is pronated downwards as well to hit the shuttle. My right leg is now in front of me and my racket is facing the floor and my wrist is still curled up.

    I'm using the panhandle grip too.
    Kwun, from the second picture, that's how my friend says my position should appear.
     
  7. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Don't use your wrist to generate power; use it to control the angle of the stroke. The "wrist snap" (flexion) movement is not very powerful.

    Avoid the panhandle grip. It's not good for your arm, and it's not good for your smashes either.
     
  8. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Sorry, still not clear. What do you mean that your elbow is facing up?

    I agrre with Gollum. Pronation is much more important than 'wrist snap' for generating power. If you are really using a panhandle grip for smashes, then I can't imagine that you are employing much pronation in your forehands.

    The panhandle grip can be used for netkills & pushes & certain backhands. Would not use it for smashing at all.
     
  9. Dave18

    Dave18 Regular Member

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    What I mean by elbow facing up, its just part of how I smash, when I pull my arm back (racquet is sort of touching my back) So when my arm is pulled back, my elbow is facing upwards towards the ceiling.

    So, in your opinion, what is the best grip for smashes? Forehand? Thank you.
     
  10. Slanter

    Slanter Regular Member

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    Where the racquet finishes after a big hit is pretty revealing about the technique of a player. If the player has a technical problem they are more likely to finish in an off-balance position. If you are finishing up in the position you are describing then you are almost certainly losing power. The shot that will put you in that position gains power almost exclusively from the movement of the arm. The potential power from the forearm and wrist, and from the hips, is largely wasted. The best practice to gain a solid throwing action for the forehand is to throw shuttles, get a coach to show you how.

    While it is possible to diagnose faults from extreme example such as yours it is not a good idea to apply this to every player. The best example of this is golf. Take the best thousand players in the world - no two of them will have the same follow-through. In fact, no two of them will have the same backswing either. What is important is that if you video them and slow the film down their actions will all be identical through impact. Given how your body is put together you must find the most efficient method of moving the racquet head quickly while keeping the racquet face square to the target line. Sounds easy, doesn't it?
     
  11. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Elbow position; Smash grip

    Initially, when you pull your arm back, the elbow should not be pointing upward. It should be pointing to the backcourt. It should be a bit lower than the (rear) shoulder, but not too much lower. Look at the top picture below... note that the left arm is lifted up to help line up the body to the incoming shuttle. This raised left arm also puts the front shoulder higher than the rear shoulder (which, in turn, is higher than the right elbow). The L shoulder, R shoulder and R arm almost form a straight (but inclined) line. In this photo, the elbow is a bit lower than the straight line described by the 2 shoulders. Some players will have the elbow more in line, others will have it a little bit off the line as seen in this photo. Either form is probably OK as long as the elbow does not drop too far below the inclined line that I described.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    In the last photo above, we see another view of a (jump) smash. In this picture, the smasher is just starting to drop the racket behind the (right side) of the back. If the player were to drop the racket behind the middle or the left side of the back (instead of the right side of the back), the elbow will lift upward too early. (Also notice that the left arm has also started to drop in this photo. But be sure not to drop this arm too early).

    After the racket has reached its lowest point behind the back, then the elbow starts to lift upward as it starts to come forward just prior to arm extension. Important: do not let the right elbow lift too early in the swing!

    Smash grips: some player/coaches recommend a conventional forehand grip ('v' is on top) for smashes; others recommend more of a neutral grip ('v' is shifted or rotated a bit to the left).

    Lee Jae Bok suggests a variation of the neutral grip... to find it, hold the racket out in front of you with your right hand (assuming you are a righty) with the racket on edge (perpendicular to the floor) using a neutral grip; rotate the racket counter-clockwise about 10 to 15 degrees. With this grip (as with most grips), there should be a gap between the first & second fingers since the racket lays across the hand at an angle. With Lee's smash grip, the thumb goes across the front bevel so that it wraps around the handle placing it between the fingertips (in the gap) of the first 2 fingers. (This finger/thumb postion if somewhat similar to the grip shown in the top photo).

    For a great instructional video on the smash, check out the Power Smash on Lee's site at www.IBBS.tv . You can view a free short excerpt from that video (if your register for free) at:

    http://www.ibbs.tv/IBBS/home/freevideos.aspx

    However, to see his 'power' grip & many other important aspects of a good powerful smash, you'll need to buy access to the full video. (note that these vids might still require a fast broadband connection).
     
    #11 SystemicAnomaly, Feb 5, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2005
  12. Dave18

    Dave18 Regular Member

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    Thank you SystemicAnomaly,

    all your posts are extremely helpful.

    I will practice and practice.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly Regular Member

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    Elbow position (again)

    I would like to sightly amend a couple of points that I made in my previous post above, primarily for sake of clarification. The first amandement concerns the position of Ann Lou Jorgensen's elbow in my 1st picture. My own preference for the elbow position at this stage of the stroke would be to have it more in line (a somewhat tilted straight line) with the shoulders. Some top players have the elbow a little lower, a bit off the shoulder line. This is also Ok, but I would not have it any more off line (any lower) than the position of Ann's elbow in the picture above.

    The 2nd modification is the position (or action) of the elbow when the racket head has dropped to it lowest position below the hitting shoulder (or behind the right side of the back). I had stressed that the elbow should not lift at all prior to this racket position. Realistically, the elbow may actually just start to lift as the racket head approaches it lowest point below the shoulder.

    However, if you tell yourself not to raise the elbow at all until the racket is at the bottom of the loop, then you will probably be better off. It is a standard coaching trick to exaggerate (or distort) certain details to elicit a desired response from a player/student. (The desired response here is not to have the elbow lift prematurely).
     
    #13 SystemicAnomaly, Feb 6, 2005
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2005

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