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Rallying LD, version 3

Discussion in 'World Championship 2013' started by galaxyduo, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    So now we know why CL couldn't attack LD in their match. LD was clearing every shuttle to the backline, perfectly, just like he did against LCW. You don't smash from the very backline against LD because you are just wasting your strength and energy (and LCW blew all his energy against LD with the extra smashes). I'm sure CL knew about this new version of LD and how this new version of LD is so effective.

    BTW, this LCW vs LD match was equally as boring as the LD vs CL match. But this is LD's new style. He likes to slow the game down and just "rally" and play defensive. The number of power smashes LD hit in this entire match against LCW was probably the same as the number of smashes LD hit against LCW in 1 point at the 2008 Olympics. I could count the number of power smashes from LD in the entire match on one hand!

    Now do you think the rallying version 3 of LD can beat the Super Dan of 2008 if they played each other?
     
    #1 galaxyduo, Aug 11, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  2. kaitamasaki

    kaitamasaki Regular Member

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    Agreed, as effective as CL's smash is, there were a few rallies in their match that showed LD could get even the sideline ones, that's why he stopped bothering to attack so much.

    LD in 2008 against the current LD would be a bit like the strongest sword trying to attack the strongest shield. Perhaps in a match against the two, 2008 LD would be able to win if he had the stamina and drive of his younger self. But most players soon come to mentally doubt themselves when your smashes start to expose your own weaknesses.
     
  3. Timz :]

    Timz :] Regular Member

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    I disagree with you here. Clears don't fall straight down the backline unless it was a high clear or a high lift, although it does land at the backline, meaning if you hit it high enough it would still be a little far from the baseline so it doesn't mean that one shouldn't smash it. Compared to LCW perfomance this past week, he barely tried smashing to the lines, not as a winning shot but even just a building shot for the kill. Quite disappointing.

    I think against these rally type strat, the best way is to go on full offense. Just like how chong wei feng tried at game 1 with LD a few days back. Same reason why LXR lost to Ratchanok today.
     
    #3 Timz :], Aug 11, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  4. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    I'm of the opinion that Lin Dan ver 3 is no match for Super Dan of Beijing OG 2008 which I call Lin Dan ver 1 for convenience sake, and Lin Dan ver 2 would be from the 2-3 years up to and including the LOG 2012. Not sure if you'd agree with my description/classification.

    That is, to me, ver 1 > ver 2 > ver 3

    We've seen in this WC'13 how Lin Dan ver 3 dealt with attacking players like LCW, Chen Long and Chong Wei Feng and rallying,defensive type player like NTM, not to mention the two lesser players, Eric Pang and Sattawat Pongnairat, no disrespect to them. As to how effective it will continue to be only time will tell.

    Perhaps, you or those technically proficient in badminton (not me, I don't qualify) would like to describe the characteristics of Lin Dan ver 3 for clarity's sake and for common understanding.

    Basically, I see it as rallying, defensive and highly deceptive, attacking only when he's about 70% sure of success coupled with the ability to turn defense into attack or counter-attack. It seems to me that Lin Dan fully aware of his superb defensive ability and knack of reading his opponent's game not only wants to wear him down and keep pushing him until mistakes occur but also even to invite him to attack prematurely so as to punish any weak or loose shots or return the attack with interest. Pardon me if I didn't make myself clear.

    I tend to agree that the best way to play against Lin Dan ver 3 is to go full-force all-out attack but the question is : How strong is your attack and how long can you go at it without tiring yourself out too soon? Of course, blindly or wildly attacking Lin Dan is out of the question, short of suicidal.
     
  5. garbun0629

    garbun0629 Regular Member

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    one point to add about version 3 style.

    The way LD version 3 really creates frustration to the opponent. Because LD is so good at defense. Can't think of any other ways to score a point..frustration leads to mistakes..and emotions..
     
  6. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    This is Lin Dan playing. Not any other random badminton pro. Lin Dan will hit shot after shot within inches of the back line. It doesn't matter if it's a high defensive clear or an attacking clear, backhand, or whatever. Every shot Lin Dan hits will fall within inches of the back line. The only time LCW should smash is if it is a short lift, but there were very few such shots from Lin Dan today.

    [QUOTE='Timz :]I think against these rally type strat, the best way is to go on full offense. [/QUOTE]

    Yes, let's go on full on offense and cramp out from the exhaustion of smashing against the best defender in the world. Great strategy!

    No disrespect, but your exact strategy lead to LCW cramping out. It is a bad strategy against the current version of Lin Dan.
     
  7. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Agree. Frustrating the opponent is exactly what Lin Dan ver 3 (LDv3 for short) does best and is meant to do.
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Today's LD took a lot of breaks. Asked for a shuttle change and towel down almost every point and finds it difficult to play two power smashes in one rally. :eek:

    And for me, he's the best ever men's singles player ever.:)
     
  9. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I don't think he was at peak fitness (taking his age in consideration). I'm sure he did do some training before this WC, but I doubt he did extensive training like he would have before the 2008 and 2013 Olympics.

    In the end, this "rallying" LD is good enough with his control and defense, he can afford to sit back and defend smashes. Many of us thought CL was playing passive against LD and so we thought CL wasn't playing 100%. The truth is, CL knew how much better this "rallying" LD was with control and defense so CL wanted to pick his smashes.

    IMO, smashing at LD now if LD has hit the shuttle within inches of the baseline is just a waste of energy.
     
  10. gelee

    gelee Regular Member

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    Yeah spot on with Lin Dan's new game style. LD always looked in control and alot more comfortable in general when it comes down to rallying and playing control type play with LCW. Granted that LD made some unforced errors, but he showed that he was a class above LCW when it comes to the mastery of certain basic things that most of us overlooked like court coverage, shot accuracy and choice of shots.

    I feel like this style would eventually give rise to the next modern badminton style of play. I think the game has evolved past LCW's speedy high tempo game. You could see that Du Pengyu, without the same stroke and court mastery as LD, came close to wiping LCW off the court in the semis had he not been playing rubber games since the start of the tournament.

    Basically,

    Du Penyu's physique ability + mastery in strokes, court craft and coverage = LD = badminton's next best player
     
  11. galaxyduo

    galaxyduo Regular Member

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    I don't think LD is doing this style deliberately. He is doing this style because he is older and doesn't have the energy he did in his youth. However, LD's skill is so high compared to the other top pros that LD can afford to do this. LD's skill is in a class in itself. LCW is one class below LD (with CL not far behind). At the moment, LD/LCW/CL outclass the rest of the field, with LD in his own class.

    Not everybody has LD's defensive ability, consistency, and control. If you don't have LD's defensive ability, consistency, and control, I think you have to smash your way to victory. This version 3 of LD has better defense, consistency, and control than the 2008 Super Dan who won with power smashes.
     
  12. ripper

    ripper Regular Member

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    In year 2008 he was Super Dan, now he is Dan, the Master. :D
     
  13. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    as the old adage says, "the best defense is the best offense" and it is more and more true as you get older and older.
     
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Master Dan.

    i like it.
     
  15. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    How about Grand Master Dan ?!
     
  16. Jonc108

    Jonc108 Regular Member

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    The smartest thing of LD is that he never work against his age.

    after OG08, you should notice that he transformed his playing style every 1-2 years. He did encounter defeats in doing so, but won the majors with new playing style.

    This is not easy, esp for someone already being successful. Not easy to admit the fact that some of your ability of winning the past glories will be gone with age, not easy to force yourself to work out of your comfort zone, not easy to endure the failure encountered during the transformation.

    But he did it again and again.

    If anyone noticed, Chen Long said at about 2nd or 3rd day of WC that "LD moves less nowadays, yet every shot he played is more reasonable and optimum". LD now plays a chess-like game-style, which will be boring to watch, but brings out the best of his technical and physical performance in every play, every game and every match.

    (Perhaps this is the reason why LD did not cramp in the finals when A/C was turned off. :D)

    I am really interested to see what will be the next transformation the LD will make.

    The Super Master Dan.
     
  17. dutiehua

    dutiehua Regular Member

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    LD's new style of play is not boring to watch, if we try to understand the strategy behind each defensive clear/rally.
     
    #17 dutiehua, Aug 14, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  18. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

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    Actually I presumptuously designate LD's new rallying style as version 3 partly to refer to or coincide with the 3rd phase of his career that began post-LOG and after his 6-month break. Of course,it's not for me to say.
     
  19. frankmanzhu

    frankmanzhu Regular Member

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    Nice analysis, guys. I haven't thought of that completely myself before. It's now all making sense. Can't agree more with power smash in baseline to LD is a waste of energy.
    When listening to the commentary in the CL match, Steen Pedersen certainly doesn't understand this and ask CL to go full power. In this type of play, you either out control LD or all attack before you are tired.
    If LCW want to win this, he needs either finish the game in 2, all out attack. Not passively hope the shuttle is out. Put the shuttle on the floor by attack if he can do that.
     

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