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Record of walkover and retired between same country player since 2006

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by limsy, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    People got nothing better to do with their time ??? Come on guys get over it!
     
  2. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

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    .
    Disagree... We wish that Badminton be a sport with players always performing their best whenever they play.

    How can Badminton be a good sport to follow when our tournament players are sometimes 'stage-acting'?

    Even in our BC PAW Games, PAWers are annoyed with this 'stage-acting'.
    .
     
    #22 chris-ccc, Oct 4, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  3. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    i wonder why police dont spend their time with family instead of fighting against crime?
    court judge also.
    they must got nothing to do with their time too,like me.
     
  4. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    I think it's impossible to get rid of these walkovers. CBA control all the decisions, so i think it's wrong to blame and fine the players. Also, it would be wrong to take action against the players for previous WO, especially as in all cases, the WO has been allowed by the tournament referee, therefore despite what anyone says, there was a legitamate reason for their withdrawal.

    I think some people are just annoyed that CL beat LCW and that the Chinese team will get 3 MS in OG. The fact is, that despite the walkover in Japan, the result will have probably been the same. CL wouldn't have been sitting around doing nOthing, resting. He would probably be training hard (probably harder than in a match) therefore if anything, he was probably more tired.

    Anyway, BWF won't be doing anything about this, CBA is really powerful. CBA could easily Walkaway and boycott all tournaments, and create a longer CBSL. There would be a lot of money coming in from sponsorship, and I'm sure other players would be lured there as well. BWF, would struggle, left with a weaker field, losing one of the biggest fanbases, and would struggle to promote the sport. Thinkabout a BWF tournament PSS MS draw without China team, LCW PG TH. It would be rubbish...
     
  5. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

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    I support BWF kick CBA out of competition. Then LYB may finally support CBSL. Hopefully CBSL can be a really professional league like NBA, NFL. Then other good players from Denmark, Maylasia, Indonesia etc can join CBSL.
     
  6. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

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    you should consider walkover rate instead of the numbers if you want to send it to

    BWF to support your claim that China have too much WO than the rest. The comparison of rate of WO for each country is more meaningful since China have too much time of meeting each other than the rest.

    Statistics can be lies if not presented and anlalysized correctly just like many published medical journals
     
  7. event

    event Regular Member

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    Another from Korea is missing from tournamentsoftware.

    2006 Jung/Lee bt Hwang/Lee, w/o, KOR - Thailand Open MD final
     
  8. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Statisitcs is such a funny thing..

    I took some statistics of 2011 and 2010 SS/GPG to see which country played the most number of same country vs. same country without WOs..

    So how many MAS vs. MAS matchups has there been 2010 2011 etc. ??? How many CHN vs. CHN...

    OK. lets look at the statistics.

    2010 (GP-Gold + SS)

    Same country vs. same country total matches Played 2010 in SS GP-gold:

    CHN-CHN : 93
    INA-INA : 15
    DEN-DEN : 10
    JAP-JAP : 4
    KOR-KOR : 3
    TPE-TPE : 2
    MAC-MAC : 1
    IND-IND : 1
    MAS-MAS : 1

    And so far in 2011:
    CHN-CHN : 69
    KOR-KOR : 12
    INA-INA : 9
    JAP-JAP : 8
    DEN-DEN : 5
    MAS-MAS : 2
    THA-THA : 2
    HKG-HKG : 2
    TPE-TPE : 2
    SIN-SIN : 1

    With these statistics. wouldn't it be strange if from just a statistical standpoint if CHN didn't have more WOs/injuries during game.. just by probability numbers alone? CHN vs. CHN is a more common matchup that ALL the other countries same vs. same matchups put together!!!!!
     
  9. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    thanks
    i cant find that
     
  10. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    I forgot to mention. The statistics i posted was only matches played fully to the end.. So it is quite clear that WOs. in juries are the exception, not the rule, even for all the many chn vs. chna games in the tournaments.
     
  11. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    ...but more the rule than exception when it comes to critical and meaningful matches, it would appear...
     
  12. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

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    Where do you find these data? Do you have a rate of WO? I feel the rate of WO for China is not that big considering the large number of chn vs chn meetings. In 2010, 70& of same country meetings are for China. So China should contribute 70% WO if all countries have the same WO rate.
     
  13. Avenger

    Avenger Regular Member

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    maybe you also need statistic how many times CHN VS other country when CHN WO or retired
    then compare it with CHN VS CHN WO or retired

    then we can see, is it true since there are many CHN players in the tournament, they have many times retired or WO if against another country?
    if there are a lot more CHN VS CHN games that is WO or retired, we can conclude somethings wrong with it
     
    #33 Avenger, Oct 5, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2011
  14. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Not really. That statistics would most likely show that there is a higher lieklyhood that a WO is given against a country/team fellow. I would be very surprised if a WO when playing a "friendly" match would not be more probable. Its hard to show that other countries "friendly" matches are notmore likely to be WOs.. without much statistical evidence from these countries on big events. Whe really only have a good statistical sampling of CHN vs. CHN matches.. We could only speculate how KOR-KOR, MAS-MAS, INA-INA WO frequency would have been if their players met almost 100-times a year in SS/GPG events.
     
  15. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    I just counted the numbers of meets from tournamentsofware, looking at SS, GPG and major events like WC. The WO rate is quite low.. But there are a few that seems "fishy" which I think is LD avoiding a meet with LCW, most likely due to tactical reasons of not wanting to allow him to "spar" too much (LD and LCW already have a huge number of meets (24) ).
     
  16. laonong

    laonong Regular Member

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    Then you should compare the rates of WO to China - rates of WO to other country for China vs the rates of WO to country A - rates of WO to other country (not A) for Country A provided you have large enough sample size .

    It's not good to focus on just one country. You need do comparison. If the difference of rates are significantly large, you can draw a reasonable conclusion.
     
  17. twobeer

    twobeer Regular Member

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    Not really.. I think most WOs. for example from Lin Dan, have been advantageous for the players from other coutries, giving them an easier opponent, and bigger chance of clinching the title. When it comes down to "saving" players for "fitness", I do not really beleive that to play a big part, as I have seldom seen a chineese national team member loose a match due to fitness.
     
  18. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    LCW has reached the level where he does not need more opportunities to spar with LD to improve. Rather, LD tries to avoid meeting LCW because every time LCW beats LD, LCW s confidence over him will grow. That is the advantage LD fears of giving to LCW. PG knows that very well. When LCW goes into a match with confidence, he gets into an unbeatable zone. From now onwards, LD will be prepared to play LCW only when LYB can arrange for a sufficiently vocal CHN crowd to back him up. That s why CHN s eager to host the SS Finals and TC next year.
     
  19. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Agree, CHN s advantage has always been their fitness and stamina, that s why the best time to beat them is in the early stages when the stamina factor is less significant as CHN has at least an 80% chance of winning when in finals.I must say your point of LD s WO benefactor effect by offering a lesser opponent to help his real opponent win the title is refreshing. However, this did not happen in JO. It had the opposite effect. (You know why I was so disappointed with LD s WO in MO11? I would have like to see if TH could have taken out either LCW or LD after they had exhausted each other in the SF.) Try not to shoot yourself in the toe. Up the beer or down it? Or how about some Chinese tea.
     
  20. flite

    flite Regular Member

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    Good find limsy!!

    How about the rate of China fixing/throwaway matches pre LYB era? It should be a good way to tell since the Chinese were already as dominant during those genuine matches days. It should indicates whether its about the frequency of CHN vs CHN matches that resulted in the high percentage of your findings or otherwise.

    I remember the legendary Yang Yang and ZJH matches went to full length at every encounter and both players gives no quarter. It was the same story to those popular Indonesian players as well.
     

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