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Scoring system

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Norman Spiteri, Feb 18, 2002.

  1. I think that the 5 x 7 sytem is too rapid, the game could end in a few minutes in some cases. I would like to bring to this forum my idea:- What if we still play till 15 points but with the only difference that when the server looses the rally he/she also looses the point ( like the volleyball new score system ) I think this will eliminate some of the confustion with new spectators and T.V. viewers who could not understand how could it be that a player lost a rally and the other player did not score a point.I think it is a more simple scoring system and it could be played on five ( 5 ) games just the same.
    Thank you
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    This already existed in my younger days. A few tournaments would have the "American Scoring".
    If this is implemented, I'd say that tie-break rules have to be changed so that player has to win by 2 clear points to maintain excitement at the end of each game.
     
  3. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    This would really be risking a lot of the fundamentals of the game. I've played a few training matches like this ("american scoring"), and it calls for very different tactics. The game really changes.

    Possibly the service rules would have to be overlooked too. The serve in badminton is defensive by nature. One possibility would be to abolish the "overhand" service rule, but keep the "below the waist" rule.

    I think it would be a dangerous experiment.
     
  4. Norman

    Norman Guest

    Dear Mag,
    When I wrote about the scoring system I didn't have in mind to change the service method as a stroke. My idea is to keep the score simple and when someone wins a rally he wins a point no matter if he's got the service or not .
     
  5. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    I think you missed my point, Norman. There is a REASON why only the server can score in badminton. If you read my post again, maybe you will find out what it is.

    ;)
     
  6. Norman

    Norman Guest

    Dear Mag,
    I agree that the game tactics will be changed but I think that's the point to make Badminton more attractive to the people where nowadays everything seems in a hurry and viewers especially T.V. viewers wants to see the score changes because I think it's boring to keep seeing the same score on the sreen while the players are fighting for each shuttle. Thx.
     
  7. TDotSmAsHer

    TDotSmAsHer Regular Member

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    How about up to 15..... with the volleyball scoring system.... (i play volleyball too.. :) and love the scoring system. I think the fact that everytime you screw up no matter if your your serve or not the other team gets a point , will keep games more exciting and athletes will have to learn to play "perfect" :) )
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    On the contrary, I think this aspect is part of the attraction of badminton. Though I agree that for the uninitiated it seems confusing.
     
  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I preferred the old scoring systems for volleyball. I think volleyball has lost some attraction now. I really used to enjoy watching it.
     
  10. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    Same here for volleyball. I prefer the old system. But concerning scoring, I believe that if you like the sport (or art, music, etc) you'll try to learn more about it. I'm not interested in baseball and American football and never made any effort to learn them. And how about tennis? I found ridiculous the way they counted: how can you go from 0 to 15, to 30 and then 40 and so on... For an uninitiated I think tennis is far more difficult to understand. Should tennis change their scoring system to make everybody lives easier to understand the game? We can go on to different sports like Judo (koka, wazari, ippon, etc), boxing, gymnastics (10 points system but how many know the criteria to award the points), figure skating (6 points?) etc. Will these sports change the scoring system? I'm afraid not.

    I believe different sports attract different crowds. The rules (including the scoring system) is what makes it attractive and special. If you interested you'll find ways to learn. Probably IBF should find some methods to facilitate this learning. But I'm not in favour of changing the game for people who are not interested.
     
  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Well put, Viver.

    My wife keeps getting confused why some matches are played with six games, seven games, why tie break, why 3 sets, why 5 sets. why 5th set 6-6 has tie break, why 5th set need to play to two clear games.
    She doesn't have any problem with badminton!!

    As for baseball, apologies but I will never ever understand the attraction of the game or the scoring system.
     
  12. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Anybody who can tie their shoe laces is able to comprehend the scoring rules of badminton though... ;)
     
  13. trapped-never

    trapped-never Regular Member

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    Do you consider volleyball more attractive after its scoring has changed? The only physical effect is that teams seem to be more equalized, than they are in reality. As for tactics, less of risky moves can be seen. Do you consider this to be attractive? I don't.
     
  14. Arthur

    Arthur Guest

    I miss the jump serves, that are no longer done due to rally scoring at least at the olympic level
     
  15. To-day I read all the replies re scoring system.I wish to thank you all for the interest.I think that we have to change the scoring system so that we can get more T.V coverage.I know what you are going to say "We think that the scoring system was there for a long time and we think that if the viewers want to watch the game they have to accept it as it is." Well that is true in a way but when one start to analize the situation of the game especially in european countries what do we find?
    We find that Badminton is one of the sports that you know when the game starts but cannot say how long it will take.I know that the T.V. stations don't like this situation because they like to have at least an idea of when the game is going to finnish so that they can plan the schedule.As I said before, sometimes a game comes to a stand still with the same score called over and over again with the players winning a rally each and the score is the same.
    Well that's all I have to say for to-day and as you know I am trying to give this opinion because I tried the 5 X 7 system and did not like it at all so maybe we could try another system before we stick to the old one.:)
     
  16. Mikie

    Mikie Regular Member

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    Hmm... Volleyball, tennis... New scoring systems...
    Can someone explain me how come that Formula 1 TVs are believed to be attractive (both for TV-people and fans)?
    They have NO pauses during action (at least they don't plan them), NOBODY can say when the racing will end (or if it ever end), MOST of racings looks the same - train of cars one behind another with a little chance to see sth exciting, ONLY a couple of cars have chances to win, since the MIDDLE of a season a fan can easily tell you who will be a WC and they can be trusted, say 90% (and still they all keep watching racings!)... there are even more things according to you can make this sport a VERY DULL one for a TV watcher and EXTREMELLY unpopular among TV-channels.
    And what we have in reality?
    A constantly growing army of fans, billions of money, TVpeople PAYING for a chance to show competitions, tons of ads... - an industry is built to meet the slightest wish of a customer.
    Maybe we have to adopt Formula1-scoring system? Just imagine: only 24 players that play constantly for 3-4 hours at one court every 2 weeks moving from one country 2 anorther and so on... Will then badminton be more attractive for TV? Will this attract more money for the sport?
    You might think I'm completely nuts to offer such a thingy but to my mind my offer is not at all bad reasoned than yours. And IMHO it is as crazy as yours!

    Why should we copy other sports? Why shouldn't we keep to good old ways? What? They are not good for TV? Reread the first part of the letter - what could be worse for TV bradcasting than F1? Yet there's no problem with telecasts.

    Did introducing new 5x7 scoring system improve situation? No. What makes you think that anorther score counting system will change the situation? Can't all you see that all these TVpeople saying is northing but an excuse. They are IGNORING badminton not because it is bad (or the scoring system is bad), they simply don't want it! Why the hell should we adopt new systems than!?
    What exactly is wrong with old system? Not scoring for sometimes prolonged periods of time? Personally I'm fond of the situation when players fight without scoring! They make their best at the moment! They are equals at the moment! It is really fun to play with an equal, don't you think? And to watch them play. To hell with new scoring systems!!!
     
  17. Dear Mikie,
    We are doing this because we want to see our beloved sport incease in popularity and nothing else.
    I think every Badminton player wishes to have the oppotunity to watch a good game of Badminton and can have the same chance as other sports.
    What's the use in saying " O.K. we have a good product we are happy with it."
    Do we wish to see our sport get more popular ?
    To-day everything is run on marketting etc.
    I wish to say that I am happy with the game but could we try to make it better?
    How are we going to make it look better ? or can we make it look better ?
    I hope we don't loose our temper and start insulting those who have different opinions then ours or say that someone is rediculas because we do not agree with him as I said before I am doing this because I love the Game. Thx and good luck to all
     
  18. Chris

    Chris Guest

    I would like to answer Mikie on Formula 1. You are really giving me the impression that you are not knowing what you are saying. First of all, I can tell you that an F1 rule says that if the race runs for two hrs it will be stopped with the current positions as final. Therefore that explains that an F1 race ENDS and the time of the finish is estimated. If you can watch an F1 race from a wide perspective you should appreciate that it is not only 24 cars running after each other but there is aw whole team work which begins from engineering of the machine and aerodynamics of the car, till the final lap of the race. And HOW can u say that there is no action in F1 if you don't watch it from start till finish?

    I would return now to badminton (at last) :) I think that in this case i should agree with mike that the best system is the traditional one. As mike said if someone is interested in a sport he should watch it no matter how the score is. But I think that Norman has also a point. Let us assume that someone is watching tv and he encounters a badminton game and it interests him, with the speed etc. I think that he may be bored with the same score. If someone knows the rules he knows that if the score remains the same it renders the game more interested but a new person who watched badminton for the first time it seems to be something stupid that they are playing and the score remains the same. So I'm a bit undecided about this matter. 10x for listening (hopefully) :)
     
  19. Mikie

    Mikie Regular Member

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    Dear Norman,
    Didn't mean 2 insult you (or anyone else), sorry if you feel this way. Just expressed my opinion. Maybe too emotionally - sorry. The reason is the same - I love the game. To my mind there's no point in reinventing the wheel - changing rules, as for better looks for badmin... I don't think that changing scoring system is the best way fot it. I bielieve I explained why clear enough.

    2 Chris,
    Well, you are true, there are even more rules. E.g. if the race is stoped with red flag current position of pilots will be considered as final. Panis won his 1st in 96(before his legs were injured) when the race was stopped this way. My mistake - they can finish the race any time they want. Though I'm always dissapointed when they do it - this way they make it less sport and more coin flipping: heads or tails! That's why I don't like new rules - they make badminton the same way less interesting.

    <quote>If you can watch an F1 race from a wide perspective you should appreciate that it is not only 24 cars running after each other but there is aw whole team work which begins from engineering of the machine and aerodynamics of the car, till the final lap of the race.</quote>
    22 again not 24 :). Agree, that's why I love this sport. But can a person see all this background work? A fan can of course, but a newcomer? It's a way more difficult sport to watch (and to bradcast) anyway. And still it is very popular.
    I think if they wanted to broadcast badminton they'd find the way.

    P.S.
    F1 is not a good example. It was the 1st possible example came to my mind (maybe because the season is going to be opened soon! :)) BTW. They change the rules every season trying to slow racings down (to make it safer for all) but all their efforts are useless.
     
  20. Norman

    Norman Guest

    Dear Mikie and everyone,
    I agree with you on many things that's why I wish to continue with the subject, but I hate to see our sport not winning as much popularity as it should . I don't think you are going to believe this:- On one of the daily papers I saw an article where Badminton was discriebed as a SISSY SPORT. Can you believe it.I think we will be doing a good thing to outo ctritise ourelves and try to find a way to get better Media Coverage because I think that nowadays everything goes round media.
    I don't agree that there is no differnce between Badminton and F1 for the Media, because first of all F1 have a lot of followers and supporters and the cameras are shooting in daylight while Badminton does not have all that supporters and in old times the T.V. cameras had to light power lighting so that could take pictures inside a hall which we know could not happen in Badminton.We don't even allow Photographers with flash light. F1 coverage on media is going on for a very long time that's why it is so popular.
    Now back to the subject:- We are afraid to change the scoring system because we think that the game suffers. O.K. everyone have the right to think that, and some are arguing that some other sports like Volleyball changed the score system and the game is not interesting like it was with the old system. In my opinion ( I could be wrong ) Volleyball score was exagerated by rising the score to 24 or 25 so that's why I sugested that our game remains till 15 points. Last point is that some sports when they changed the rules the sport came more interesting like when football introduced the substitutions. In old times substitutions were not in the game. In Basketball they introduced the illegality of the BACK PASS when the ball is in the opponents half court. These rules are still there and at first they all had opposition but nowadays everybody accepts them and new TACTICS where invented and the game kept in progress. Now I find nothing wrong if we can find a way how our beloved game will be respected by the Mediaso that our sport could be more exposed to Public.
    I have a confession to make :- Even I once said that Badminton was a SISSY GAME I had to experience the game to learn the exitment of it. In used to play Basketball before I tated Badminton.
    How about this:-:) Even the name start with the word BADminton or as some say it BEDminton it seems that something bad or something sleepy goes with the game.
    Happy Goodminton :) :):)
     

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