Thanks for visiting us!

Badminton Central is a free community for fans of badminton! If you find anything useful here please consider registering to see more content and get involved with our great community users, it takes less than 15 seconds! Everybody is welcome here.

Click here for a FREE account!

Shaking the racket before serving

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by Tactim, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    I have a quick question that since there is one player in my club with a unique serve that I didn't realize was possibly illegal until I started reading up on some the rules with serving. Before serve, he shakes his racket (much like how players shake their racket to keep their muscles "warm") before serving, adding a lot of disguise to it. Would this violate the category of having no pause after the forward movement of his racket during a serve? Just wanted to get some opinions before I call him out on the next time and settle it peacefully as opposed to a confrontation.
     
  2. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    From the start of the first forward movement of the service motion the racket movement must be continuous. To anser your question a few more need to be answered:

    -This Shaking, is it done whilst he has the shuttle in front of his racket?
    -Does he remain still, then start shaking then hit?

    If the answer to either of these is yes, I would say it is most likely to be illegal, but without seeing a video it is impossible to be conclusive. I don't really know what you mean by shaking....
     
  3. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    He shakes his racket

    .
    As jamesd20 said;

    The first forward movement towards to shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward, and forward and backward, and forward before hitting the shuttlecock. Otherwise, how would a receiver know which of the forward movements is the one going to hit the shuttlecock? Therefore, it is illegal.
    .
     
  4. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Yes, but if he is doing this shaking prior to putting the shuttle in front of his racket, it could be argued his service motion had not started yet, he could shake, then quickly put the shuttle down & take the serve.
     
  5. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    If he is doing this shaking prior to putting the shuttle in front of his racket......

    .
    That's why I phrased in my post "The first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (at Service) cannot be pulled backward...".

    The receiver should be clear about the first forward movement towards the shuttlecock (if it's a Service or not). An experienced umpire should also know if the shaking of the movement of the stroke was meant to deceive or not.
    :):):)
    .
     
    #5 chris-ccc, Feb 21, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  6. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,765
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    UK
    I have noticed lin dan has a small double-motion on his serve but he doesn't seem to get faulted for it. His motion isn't very severe or deceptive though.
     
  7. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Slap my wrists, I apologise!

    Yes he does, when he used to serve forehand he did used to get faulted doing this though....
     
  8. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    6,096
    Likes Received:
    85
    Occupation:
    Stringer, Panda reseller, whatever else comes up
    Location:
    St Helens, UK
    I suppose it all comes down to whether or not the "shake" is deemed integral to the service action. A lot of players, myself included, gave the racket a few shakes to keep the wrist warm before serving, but there's a good second of two of stillness before my service action commences (so I wouldn't be faulted on it).

    LD, on the other hand... I'd fault him EVERY time if it were up to me, but he's gone so many matches now without being faulted that no service judge would dare do it for fear of "...well the other umpteen judges didn't have a problem with it...".
     
  9. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    I guess it is illegal then. I'll clarify shaking a little more. I guess you could say it's like a "vibrating" movement in which he shakes the racket backward and forward quickly and looks like it is vibrating. There's barely any time between his shaking and the serve, I'd say about half a second. That definitely would violate the rules as said in above posts. Thanks for the input, I'll bring it up the next time I play him.

    edit: I just looked at Lin Dan's serve (From 2009 All England tournament anyway), and I can definitely see he has a double-action on his serve, though they're much bigger movements than what I described. Technically he should be faulted but I guess for points brought up above he isn't. He also has a little bit of the "vibrating" i mentioned earlier though that's before he has the shuttle ready to serve so that's not the faulting point.
     
    #9 Tactim, Feb 21, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  10. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    I'll bring it up the next time I play him

    .
    Good. :):):)

    Probably he doesn't know that before and during the Service, the server should not do anything that can cause the receiver to become unsettled and/or not ready.

    There is a solution. If you find the action (in a Service) that makes you unsettled and/or not ready to receive, don't move (in other words don't attempt to return it). Just explain that you weren't ready and a 'Let' should be called.

    But please don't you and him start using 'Gamesmanship'; and forget that to enjoy Badminton, good sportsmanship is a must. ;););)
    .
     
  11. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    Yeah, I know what you mean. Our club is pretty chill and most people don't intentionally try to break the rules. Even if we do, we just point it out in a friendly manner and they apologize. There has not been a single case of people just trying to use gamesmanship as you said to gain an advantage over an opponent, we all know each other too well and are too nice to do that =). I guess that's a luxury that isn't present in a lot of other clubs though, so I guess i'm lucky.
     
  12. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Our club is pretty chill and most people don't intentionally try to break the rules

    .
    Very happy that you are in an excellent club. :):):)
    .
     
  13. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    1
    Occupation:
    PanAm Umpire
    Location:
    California, United States
    It's technically illegal once he has the bird up, however, there can be leniency since some players tend to shake their rackets for being nervous or something. As long as it does not really distract the receiver, it is usually fine. If there's an umpire, it's generally up to the umpire to decide whether that person should be faulted or not but usually the umpire will give some leniency.
     
  14. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Many casual score-keepers do not know the Laws of Badminton

    .
    Correct. :):):)

    And if the receiver finds the (shaking) action a distraction, he/she should inform the umpire; And the umpire will decide if the shaking is OK or not.

    The above is meant for 'qualified' umpires, and not for casual score-keepers, many of them do not know the Laws of Badminton. If the score-keepers say that they don't know the Laws, then talk to the competition referee. Most competition/tournament referees do carry with them the booklet 'Laws of Badminton'.
    .
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    4,079
    Likes Received:
    4
    Occupation:
    IT Developer
    Location:
    Richmond, BC
    Lin Dan mostly has the double action service but he does it so many times that the umpires don't call it.

    However he has been called on a triple action service back in 2004. It must of been inadvertently because he normally does double. When he was called, he dropped his racket!

    Below is the direct youtube URL with the time frame in question about the tripple action.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH2LvnLD33I&feature=player_detailpage#t=525s
     
    #15 Matt, Feb 22, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  16. chris-ccc

    chris-ccc Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    26,910
    Likes Received:
    10
    Occupation:
    Professional Badminton Coach & Badminton Promoter
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Lin Dan should asked himself this question......

    .
    :D:D:D Lin Dan dropped his racket to show how disappointed he was; But he should know about this 'Law'.

    Lin Dan should asked himself this question: "Will my receiver know which of my forward actions will be the one hitting the shuttlecock?".
    :):):)
    .
     
  17. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2002
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Accountant / Coach
    Location:
    uk
    At the top level if the shaking or moving the raket towards the shuttle before serving is consistent and not deliberately too deceive then the players do not get faulted. At a lower level shaking the racket is actually more likely to cause problems for the receiver. Its a grey area..
     
  18. Blisse

    Blisse Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    In Hiding
    I play at a low level, and I really hate when my opponents shake their hand a lot. Not because it's double action, but because I'm trying to focus, and the racquet is getting my attention, not the bird. I can't serve backhand (trying to learn), so I might be a little biased.
     
  19. Yoppy

    Yoppy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,832
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sydney
    I notice that not only LD is doing it. Look carefully, Hendra Setiawan also does double movement on his serve.
     
  20. Tactim

    Tactim Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    I just came across a serve yesterday I almost thought was illegal because of a double action, but by the formal definition of one forward movement, it was ok. What the person did was get into his normal serving stance, hold the racket head IN FRONT of the birdie initially, then quickly move the racket behind the birdie and serve. I almost wanted to tell him that was illegal but technically he's just bringing the racket back and he only made one forward movement so it was legal. It was more of a psychological thing that bothered me because it seemed deceptive at first, until I realized it was just a normal serve with an abnormal beginning stance.
     

Share This Page