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Short, skinny, weak looking... monster player.

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Big L4, Dec 23, 2007.

  1. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    It's been two years since i have actually been training for badminton, but i can't keep noticing something pretty weird: some little guys (majority:chinese or asian) hit pretty hard compared to other tall and players. For example, once at a tournement, i saw a guy like about 1,50 m tall... and he hits as hard as our coach! (plus, he was skinny). Can anyone explain that PLZZZZ.
     
  2. hybridragon

    hybridragon Regular Member

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    Hasn't anyone told you not to judge a book by its cover? lol

    The thing is, if you have good fundamentals such as footwork and strokes, you'll generate plenty of power. Heck, I've seen girls that generate more power than the average guy badminton player. Badminton isn't about muscles and power, it's about finesse.
     
  3. Ayame

    Ayame Regular Member

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    I agree with hybrid, don't judge a book by it's cover. I saw a doubles match in which one of the guys was really really short and skinny but had a crazy hard smash.
     
  4. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    Ok, i agree that there is finesse involved but muscles also play a role (if you don't have muscles, how do you even hit the shuttle or lift the racket). Plus, if you say that it's because of their finesse, then players with a good body build should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly. So, in my opinion, it is not because of finesse that they can hit the shuttle so hard. oh and... it's the EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT.
     
  5. hybridragon

    hybridragon Regular Member

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    Now read what I wrote:

    I did tell you how to power should be generated. A proper badminton stroke from a physically weaker player will generate more power than a player with lots of muscles with worse form.

    If you want me to be more specific then here are somethings that help people generate the power and angle that most people tend to not get:
    ~Getting there and hitting the bird in front of you.
    ~Proper transition of power into the bird when you hit the bird.
    ~Making full use of the power from the body instead of just the arm. That means using the power of the legs and torso when jump smashing, using the power of the hips, shoulder turn when doing a backhand, and using the power of the fingers for flick shots.

    These are just some of the factors that enable smaller players to overpower larger-looking players who don't have as good as a form as them.

    And I didn't say muscles don't play a role. I said they play a minor role compared to finesse. They are add-ons compared to how finesse is crucial to the game.
     
    #5 hybridragon, Dec 23, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  6. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    if u pay a coach, he'll tell u. In fact, he/she might show u.:rolleyes: It is player dependent
     
  7. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Regular Member

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    Ok you are being alittle bit extreme in your emphasis on muscles. First off if you don't have muscles you have bigger problems than hitting a shuttle or lifting a raquet. So right off the bat your characterisation of these players is in error. You're analogy of a train hitting a fly is also a tad goofy. By that logic a 500 lb fat ass should be able to generate tremendous smashes.

    Mass is a factor in both the generation of Force and Momentum but, in the case of a raquet striking a bird it is the mass of the raquet and not the mass of the person that is acting on the bird. So, in this case the differences in smashes are due to differences in acceleration (for force) and angular velocity (for momentum). Also important is something called impulse which is the force multiplied by the time in which the force is acted upon a body. This determines how much momentum is transferred to the object. The timing or 'finesse' of a persons swing determines this impulse and thus how efficiently momentum is trasferred from the raquet head to the bird.

    Please bear in mind this is a grossly simplified expanaition.
     
    #7 Polar Bear, Dec 23, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  8. Athelete1234

    Athelete1234 Regular Member

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    Bad form= 10% of muscle strength put into bird. You're wasting your energy like this

    Good form= 80-100 transfer of strength into bird.

    These are far from accurate, but with proper technique, you can increase your power exponentially without requiring huge muscles.
     
  9. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    But then why the heck don't i see alot of strong guys hit the shuttle as well as the small guys? I only see little shrimps doing it right. And one more thing, i never said i was putting all the credit into muscles alone, i myself am skinny and hit harder than alot of stronger guys, but i still don't hit as well as the shorties. Plus, they seem always tireless, but they should be spending more energy than tall people (provided that they both have the same skill in footwork).
     
  10. Athelete1234

    Athelete1234 Regular Member

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    You're probably playing with the wrong people then...
     
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Regular Member

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    "They seem", "they should". Your problem is you are dealing with your perceptions and then applying generalisations. Look, if you could just draw linear extrapolations of skill from physical characteristics we wouldn't need tournaments and competitions. Every match would be predetermined. Of course if you are a fatalist then you already believe that anyways.
     
  12. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    oh and dang it... no one was able to explain.:confused:
     
  13. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Regular Member

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    Not so, you just don't get it.
     
  14. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    because the shorter people have better technique.
    Better timing, better technique, probably better footwork. It's not about muscles, all this has been said at least 11 times in this thread...

    Now, begging the question, could those strong/tall guys hit harder if they had the same skills...Maybe :p
     
  15. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    A powerful smash is primarily about technique and timing.

    Big muscles won't necessarily help at all. For power in badminton, you need fast muscles: sudden, explosive movements.

    The kinds of training that develop large muscles do not make those muscles fast. That's not to say that large muscles are bad -- not at all -- but rather that your muscles need to be trained for explosive power (regardless of how big they are).
     
  16. Big L4

    Big L4 Regular Member

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    I KNOW THAT MUSCLES MEAN NOTHING IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TECHNIQUE!!! I NEVER SAID I PUT ALL THE CREDIT IN THE MUSCLES!!!!!:mad:
     
  17. macca

    macca Regular Member

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    chill out mate.

    What people are trying to say, is that anyone can have a good smash with the propper form.

    Tall people can smash just as hard as anyone else. OK being a bit stronger might help ONCE you have the proper form and footwork etc, but its not the be all and end all.

    Maybe there are just lots of good short people where you live *shrugs*.

    Oh, and with the correct positioning and movement, you expend less energy getting to shots.
     
    #17 macca, Dec 23, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2007
  18. jerby

    jerby Regular Member

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    maybe, just maybe, it might help if you took your time and actually formulated youe entire question in a story-like way...you know, make a post longer than 3 sentences, that might help a lot.

    Either we already answered your question, or you didn't formulate it right...I'm sorry if I seem blunt, but this is the way I see it..
     
  19. hiroisuke

    hiroisuke Regular Member

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    Indeed. The question was a very general question, and you are expecting a very specific and detailed answer without specifying just exactly what you want. Acting frustrated and confused is not the way to go.

    I am not very patient right now, so let me put my words in these terms:

    1) What exactly is it you want? The exact motions of these skinny guys, how they do something so powerful? Are you asking if buff guys simply can't exert the amount of power into the birdie like skinny guys can? Are you simply asking for some miracle solution into explaining this. There is no simple miracle solution to anything, if that's what you're asking.

    2) You are making a generalization that there aren't any buff guys out there who can put loads of power and speed into their shots, they're just fewer in number. You are quite right that most of the best out there are quite skinny (relative to most athletes), they do have quite some muscle but not much body mass. Badminton is about SPEED, not POWER. Thus, the faster you can swing that racket, the faster your shots. Smashes, therefore, are not POWERFUL, but are FAST. Simply put, the faster you can swing your racket and put the energy into the birdie, the faster your shots. To do that requires fast reflexes and fast-response muscle stitches (or whatever they are called, I'm not quite sure on this part).

    3)
    So many problems with what you said right there.
    (a) People with good body builds should be hitting shuttles like a train hitting a fly if it was because of finesse? What does that mean? Finesse means skill and detail in performing an action, people with good body builds don't necessarily have the skill. Furthermore, explain the term, "good body build." To have a good body build in every sport is something different. In sumo, you have to be big and strong, as well as nimble. In cross-country, it means to have strong legs and as little excess body mass as possible. In badminton, it means to be able to jump high, swing your arms, hands, and wrist quickly, and also, to be able to have the endurance to keep running quickly and change directions in a split second.
    (b) "So, in my opinion," means just that: That is YOUR OPINION. Opinions aren't always correct. That is what you think, but the facts may prove otherwise.
    (c) "EXPLANATION of HOW they DO IT." If you are asking for that, you might as well be asking for the meaning of life, a description of love, a lecture on hope. You're basically asking for a million different things, and most of them are intangible and relative, so it's virtually impossible. If you simply keep providing statements as these, there's no point in asking, accept some part of what the other members have been telling you, ask questions based off of their information. For example, when Polar Bear wrote,"The timing or 'finesse' of a persons swing determines this impulse and thus how efficiently momentum is trasferred from the raquet head to the bird." you could have asked, "What are some techniques to shorten the time of energy transfer in order to maximize the momentum transferred? How much of the swing energy should be put into the wrist, how much into the arm? Should I stop my arm motion when I start rotating my wrist?" and other questions as those.



    Please stop making answering this question so frustrating. By the way, the shorties are not the only ones capable of hitting the shuttle with "power," there are lots of tall guys out there with "power." You just need to look online and around more.
     
  20. February

    February Regular Member

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    You do know that 6 foot + asians are pretty common where I live?
     

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