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Shouting/cheering at opponents errors

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by speedyJT, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. speedyJT

    speedyJT Regular Member

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    Hello everyone :)
    This is more a "how would you react" than a question of rules.

    We had a club match last weekend.
    The last match in our club match was the Mixed Doubles which I played.
    The first set was 21-13 for us and nothing special happened.
    The second set was a real thriller. Our opponents had a lead at 13 - 16. And when we had made an (unforced)error, the teammates of our opponents began to clap hands. (This isn't a good sportsmanship for me and in our country).
    So they had the next lead at 17-20. At this point, I began to "cheer" and shout a "yes!" (to myself) after every point for us - even if it was an unforced error by them. While I said "yes" I didn't looked to the opponent - it was just for myself.
    At 23-All, the opponents man came to the net and shouted to me "Stop saying "yes" after every point and after an error of us!!!!! This is not fair!!!". I looked at him and didn't said any word. (Cause I know that their teammates behind them claps every time when we made an error).
    We won the match 26-24. The opponents woman didn't came to the net to shake hands and went directly to her teammates. I shaked hands with the opponents man and said sorry (for my cheering) and thanks for a good game.

    Maybe the cherring to myself was too loud - because I'm normally a player which plays really respectful and have a good behavior to my opponent.
    Sportsmanship is important for me.

    But at such a tight score, and the cheering teammates on errors of the opponent, I had to push myself.

    (I know you can't really compare this - but take a look at the big tournaments e.g. Denmark Open QF Mixed with the Danish pair in the third set 30-29. The whole stadium is cheering at every mistake from the opponents - including the Danish players)..


    So - how would you have react in my situation?
    Or how do you push yourself at such a tight score and the cheering teammates in the background?


    Thanks for your opinion.
     
  2. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Shouting/cheering is ok. There is a subtle margin imho.

    When my opponent makes a service error, at say, 18:20 or so, I wouldn't shout "yes", but prefer something like "come on" to myself.

    Imho, sportmansship is very important, I would never start to call dubious shots out or things like that. But a little bit of psycho-war is ok and not to be considered unfair!

    Anyway, not shaking hands is definetely unfair and bad sportmansship!
     
  3. speedyJT

    speedyJT Regular Member

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    Yes that's a good point I forgot. At such of simple error, I didn't shout out a loud "yes". Just a "come on" as you said - to myself.
    And after every "yes" I raised my hand or my racket to apologize before the next serve.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It's very cultural. In UK, it is considered as bad manners but here in Asia, it's become so common that it's normal. It's very normal. So long as you don't do it in their faces in a match, it's fine.

    That your opponents let it bother them shows some inexperience in handling matchplay.
     
  5. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    I agree with Cheung.

    Imho, "in the face" only, when you play a really great point.
     
  6. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    Well, the british cheer, too.
    I've seen some really good british players in club matches in the last months and they all cheered and pushed themselves.
     
  7. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Times are changing :)

    But what really gets the audience going is trying to influence the linesman. That, I think is too far..... by players and by audience. Questioning is different from influencing.
     
  8. CantSmashThis

    CantSmashThis Regular Member

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    Over here in America, in local club play or high school, they are well-mannered in usually not celebrating on points won by things such as hitting the net or framing the shot. When it gets to competitive tournaments from juniors to adults, there is a lot of cheering for everything, fist pumping, shouting especially when the match gets close and I think that's fine. It's human nature, we as human beings are competitive, you are trying to pump yourself up, the match is close, you are happy for scoring a point.

    As for the rules, as long as you're not fist pumping while staring down your opponent, for the most part, it is fine.
     
  9. Fidget

    Fidget Regular Member

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    The topic of noise and celebration during a match is both cultural and personal. So there is no absolute right or wrong.

    But in answer to the actual title of the thread -- celebrating an opponent's error-- it just seems like bad form to this old WASP.

    It's one thing for a player to give a shout or fist-pump after they've played a brilliant rally. But for a player to loudly and extravagantly celebrate an opponent's simple mishit or misjudgement seems like rubbing it in. Just as rude as not shaking hands (which, after all, means 'thanks for playing a good fair game').
     
  10. Line & Length

    Line & Length Regular Member

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    That you are asking the question is all the answer that you need.

    That said, give yourself a break. We all do things we aren't completely proud of when under pressure. I know I have.

    Personally, when I've played a particularly good point, I find myself doing a quiet fist-pump and looking away from the opposition.

    As for the UK club scene, I can say that it varies greatly. In the Worcester league, team-mates frequently applaud good play from the opposition. However, this isn't true of all leagues...
     
  11. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    I applaud great play of my opponents! Even in close situations.
    Nevertheless, you can put some pressure on the opponent by cheering every point you win. That's not unfair!

    (don't get me wrong: I would never stare down my opponent, fistpump and shout "yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees" after he made a service fault. But again: Turning away and shouting "come on" before you serve should be ok even after an easy mistake of the opponent, when the score is 19:20 in the decider...)
     
  12. speedyJT

    speedyJT Regular Member

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    Yes, I think so too.
    Thumbs up or to applaud with the hand on the racket after a very good point / shot from the opponent is a good manner/gesture and I like to do it as well.
    The good thing on this is, when I praise the opponent for a good thing, this doesn't get me down. I have to smile then and think "hey - that was really great! I have to do the same, too! Lets go :) "
    But for sure - you don't want to push up the opponent too much :D
     
  13. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    I agree never used to see celebrating after every point won, staring down and all the rest of it at clubs 15 years ago. The pro's whom all the kids look up to are setting the example and this is the result. I personally when playing against people who are shouting HO! and stuff in between points just smirk and think to myself what a twit. But I accept that this celebrating thing has moved from being really bad sportsmanship to normal and not bad etiquette within the game.

    Op "how would you have react in my situation?"
    Rise above it, acknowledge how silly they are, don't let them get under your skin and stay calm play your normal game and hopefully win because of it.
     
  14. gundamzaku

    gundamzaku Regular Member

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    first i'd like to say you didn't do anything all that wrong. if you are there solely to motivate yourself by saying a soft "yes", it's ok. look at Ma Jin, she shreaks when her opponent makes a mistake at crucial points. i am a person who emphasize a lot on sportsmanship because that can always be improved even if your skills can't, and i really don't see anything wrong with what you did.

    however, if your opponents' teammates are cheering for your mistakes, that's quite ok as well, as spectators they are free to cheer for whatever shots or points they want. some spectators are so loud that even during the playing they are cheering, only in all england badminton where you can hear the sound of the string striking the shuttle. so i think it is reasonable that you do something to motivate yourself to overcome the negative cheering from the opponents' supporters.

    and if they actually came over to tell you to be quiet, which i think was a dumb move, you can just cheer a little softer out of respect for your opponent. but seriously, if your opponent can't overcome a little distraction like that, they shouldn't really be competing. tournament organizers, in my opinion, will try to make the playing field as even and fair as possible, but it's never always like that.

    lastly, not shaking hands after a game, whether it be a friendly game or in a competition is just a sore loser move in my opinion :(
     
    #14 gundamzaku, Oct 30, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  15. gundamzaku

    gundamzaku Regular Member

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    in my younger years of playing against older asian guys have been tough because they don't celebrate, but they say thank you everytime after i've made a service error. it used to bug me, but now that i'm twice as old as i was before, i got used to it. i think that's even worst than celebrating because it seemed so underhanded. but i guess it's personal preference.

    i agree completely!
     
  16. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    indeed. look back in the old videos from 80's and early 90's, players are very unemotional in general. there are no shouting, cheering themselves, nor all the "Chinese shreaking". they all dress in white, walks in, play, win/loss, shake hands, and leave.

    audience are also the same, except in a few countries where the crowd was known for their volume, many countries have fairly quiet audiences. esp so in likes of Japan and AE. where we can hear pin drop in the middle of a match. and audience claps on points and esp for good rallies, with the occasional over-enthusiastic supporters tearing through the silence.

    but in the early 2000, things changed. perhaps with some influence in other sports where cheering and grunting are the norm, badminton players started doing the same. even though rules limits the amount and direction in which emotions are expressed, the players are showing a lot more self-congratulatory expressions over the years. with today where rally won are cheered loudly.

    and amateur club players as well as local tournament audiences are influenced by what they see on TV. with more liberty on what can be expressed without overseeing umpires and officials, there are even more chances of players going over the rules, without bad intentions. bantering, trash talking are common and i have seen a lot more shouting in local tournaments too.

    however, some people are sensitive over what their opponent say/do, and in the heat of competition, it can magnify.

    as for the OP's description, i don't think he has done anything wrong when it comes to cheering himself. he made an attempt to only cheer for his own wins and also not directed at the opponent.

    as for the opponent's teammates, there is really nothing you can complain or do about. you are playing against the players on the other side of the net.
     
  17. llpjlau

    llpjlau Regular Member

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    Shouting after a rally or after playing a great winning shot seems to be becoming the norm. I don't normally shout UNLESS the opponents does it first and it depends on the situation too. But shouting at the end of the day remains just that, shouting. It may very well just be a way to pump yourself up and keep your adrenaline pumping and I don't see a major problem with it unless of course it is directed at the opponent.

    I've played in tournament matches where opponents have said things like "too easy" after playing a winning shot. This to me is extremely sarcastic and very rude. I've never faced the likes of LD and LCW on-court but I'm pretty sure even they don't say such rude things after winning a point.

    There's also the annoying thing where your opponent starts doing a lap (i.e. like a quick jog) around the court after winning a point. This behaviour also seems more common among pros nowadays. I've seen LD do it.

    Going back on topic, I do not think that the teammates are entitled to cheer like normal spectators can. Sure, cheer when your teammate wins the point after a great shot but don't cheer the opponent's mistakes. As a teammate, you are a peer or a fellow player so you have certain conventions you should follow.
     
    #17 llpjlau, Oct 31, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  18. catman

    catman Regular Member

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    Maybe we need another thread - as to how various countries and cultures treat cheering. I realize most of my preconceived notions are based on British definition "proper behaviour". Perhaps, these need to be reexamined.

    I love watching Davis Cup (Tennis) matches from South America - they are hilarious with the antics from the crowd and players. Italy is also right up there.

    Personally, I keep my emotions to myself - I think it's harder to read a person. I like playing juniors, you can read them like a book - cagey vetrans - so hard to know what they're thinking.
     
  19. drmchsraj

    drmchsraj Regular Member

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    i tend not to show off either my obvious joy or my frustration and focus on the opponent, but sometimes i can't contain it and just turn around and do what i have to do!
    i need to try to not get irked by the opponent's antics but when stupid fans cheer for him and gang up against me and try to 'seldge' me personally, i tend to get too aggressive and expressive myself. need to let my game do the talking!

    casein point: there's a couple tough opponents i face in the local circuit for the tournies here (mostly friendlies!) often, and this one particular guy is a very athletic, naturally gifted 14year old who's being properly coached by reputed coaches and medlaists at the senior-circuit in their age group (md40/45 i think) and it's us meeting in the finals usually, and obviously i can't recover fast, run around easily or unleash a storm of accurate shots all around the net as he can so i'm at the edge most of the time. he's gentle and we both can handle each other and stay cool, he more than i of course, but it's his 7 stupid cousins who i usually get to beat in previous rounds that cheer for him, more to mock me than to support him :p, that i tend to get ticked off by. one of my resolutions is to not give in to that this year.
    breeeeatheeee iiiiinnnn, breeeeatheeeee ooooutuuutttt. :)

    lol, so so true [MENTION=9436]catman[/MENTION]. those old timers sure know how to pull the nastiest tricks in the coolest way, letting you make yourself a fool out there in front of everyone :p
     
  20. catman

    catman Regular Member

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    Lol...let me understand this a crowd cheering against you mostly made up of family members of your opponent - most of whom you've just defeated....lol....can you get a more biased crowd than that?
    I guess it's a great setting for training your mind - to block out that distraction and staying focused.
    Concentrating on your breathing is a good idea - but I must confess - if I faced that not sure how I will deal with it. Good luck
     

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