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single game man vs. woman !?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by MinZen, May 11, 2004.

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  1. MinZen

    MinZen Regular Member

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    Hello,

    It is a curious topic:

    yesterday my coach told me to play a single with a woman. she played 4 years professional in the 9. league. league 1 is best and 10 is worst.
    I just played 6 months badminton and always played double, therefore no experiences in single ... I was very really worried she would destroy me :eek:
    but I could beat her in 3 sets.

    Now my question:
    is the body of a man so much more "suited" for sports like badminton than a woman?
    would e.g. the first ranked woman in the world be able to beat a man, who just played in league 2?

    I never thought and still wonder that there are so much differences in power in sports between man and woman ... :confused:
     
  2. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    Indeed a touchy subject if any!

    I can't remember exactly where I heard it from, but it was that the #1 ranked women's singles player in the world could "never" beat the #100 ranked men's singles player. Basically the difference in speed and power between men and women at a professional level are just too great. Even in a sport like badminton where a fine touch is just as important as thunderous power.

    However, at non-professional levels, I see women taking on and beating men quite often. There are quite a number of young ladies at our club that could take apart at least half our clubs' male population in singles and even doubles games. Granted of course they are at least provincial level while their male adversaries would have to be our competitive-recreational or lower players.

    The bottom line, when it comes to sports involving physical speed or strength, generally men have a genetic/natural physical advantage. It is only a general advantage though, by no means is it a given that a man will be faster, stronger, or more skillful than a woman. What is pretty much a given is that in sports, an untrained man will "never" beat a trained woman.

    So don't get me wrong, I'm by no means chauvinistic in any way or form. There's nothing more entertaining than watching a women vs men doubles and watching the men diving all over the place while trying to keep pace with the women :D. At our club, games like that happen fairly often, and they always draw cheers, clapping, and laughter, with the women getting all the crowd support :D.

    Aside from which gender is better, stronger, faster, etc. Although my favourite is watching a high caliber match of mens doubles, I say there's nothing more beautiful than the female form playing badminton ;) :D. Most women have a natural grace that eludes 99.9% of all men hahahaha :D :D :D.
     
  3. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    There are examples in tennis

    In 1973 there was the big intergender match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs. Billie was 28 and Bobby 55. Bobby was a champion in the 1940s. Billie Jean King beat Bobby Riggs in three straight sets of tennis by wearing him down with long rallies. The scores were 6-4, 6-3, and 6-3.

    In 1983 Vitas Gerulaitas bet his house that Martna Navratilova couldn't beat the 100th ranked male tennis player. That match never happened.

    In 1985 Riggs (now 67) took another shot at beating women at tennis, when he and Vitas Gerulaitis lost a doubles match to Martina Navratilova and Pam Shriver.

    apparently, Serena Williams joked about playing some Mens Tour tournaments prompting John McEnroe to write that he would have no problem beating Venus or Serena Williams.

    A few years ago in Australia, Venus and Serena challenged Kaarsten Braasch to a match. Braasch was then No. 200 in the world. It was no contest. Braasch beat Serena 6-1, then beat her sister 6-2.
     
  4. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    One reason that you have to go a long way down the ranking list to find a man of equal level to the top woman is that there are far more men in sport than women.
     
  5. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    I pretty much agree with Neil, I don't think that the top woman would beat any international man of good standard (top 100), however I think that within europe for instance Camilla would beat domestic male players and maybe up to u18 national junior men in britain.

    A big problem with the womens game is that the standard drops off very quickly compared to the mens, again smaller numbers of women add to the problem. I.e the competitiveness amonst the top 5 women is equal to that amongst the top 25 or so men in the world. This follows all the way down to domestic level in uk where you will find small draws in events and very few women seriousley playing the circuit.
     
  6. woop.

    woop. Regular Member

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    The numbers of men and women competing does tend to mean the male tournaments provide competition way down the order. In tennis it certainly isn't unusual for the top players to be beaten by others many many places below them. Much more unusual in the ladies game.

    My coach is an ex-pro (and a woman, so unlikely to take a chauvinistic line) and when coaching mixed doubles emphasises the scenarios in which I need to take the rear court and my partner the front. I've never read this as a specific review of my power and speed being far better than my partners, but a generalisation that men do have that extra power and speed. Men and womens bodies are different, and that does have specific impacts in certain sporting arenas.
     
  7. ruth1

    ruth1 Regular Member

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    I have trouble believing that Gong Ruina (currently ranked 1 in the world) would not be able to beat the men that are ranked near the 100 mark in the world. Maybe this is my feminist side coming out and I'm putting too much hope in her as a woman. It's just hard to fathom. Even if she can't smash as hard and as "angled" as men tend to, I would think her experience, shot placement, and anticipation, would make up for that. Like I said, I may be biased.

    I do agree that she probably couldn't beat the men's #1 player. But that's because of something that men have more of in their body. I think I read somewhere that they have more "androgen" (i'm not sure if this is right), but it's something in the body that men have more of and it allows them to build more muscle mass, and just be stronger athletes over women.
     
  8. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    In badminton, speed and power that a man has over a woman is more decisive. I do not honestly think the world no.1 woman player can beat the world no.100 man player. You take someone like Marten Frost or Ong Ewe Hock, who are probably ranked closer to over no.200 now, and they can take on the no.1 woman player and probably beat her.
    A 100th ranked man's attacking clears alone will render the no.1 woman's repertoire of strokes, no matter how good or complete, ineffective.
     
  9. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    This sensitive topic was first discussed here
    http://www.badmintonforum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2638&highlight=CM

    I'm still sticking by my opinion that the top best 5 WS and WD pros can't beat level A- and up (A-, A, A+, pros) MS and MD, respectively. As for A- men level players, this would be the drawing line with top 5 women able to take some men games but not the match or repeated matches.

    Ruth1, this is not to take away women's ability. If the games has no skill restriction, guys will use power and speed as the main arsenal as finesse and placement can be use as backup. Finesse and accurate placement from the women side only work if one is in control of the rallies.

    As for reference, how do i rank canadian best?
    I would rank canadian top #1 and #2 MS and MD in Cooler's world scale as
    A- to A. (ie, not A+ and up). It means our national can take the top 5 WS and WD anyday anytime.
     
    #9 cooler, May 13, 2004
    Last edited: May 13, 2004
  10. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    I would go as far to say B+ MD can take or be equivalent to top 5 WD.
     
  11. lalanthier

    lalanthier Regular Member

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    I'd have to say that at the amature...or at least not the world championship levels...women still have the potential to beat men - and possibly very badly.

    Proffessional level I probably would be on a man. But I'm not really sure why. I mean I can understand the muscles...but...it's very strange considering reaction time and subtlty in shots wise...I would have thought women were better canidates. So in the end...it seems as though the only advantage other than strength might be speed (which is almost the same as reaction time)...so why would they win?
     
  12. Majin Legacy

    Majin Legacy Regular Member

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    Isn't it simply a genetic/physical advantage? Women's bodies are designed for the carriage of babies, and their hips are not as maneuverable as men's are.
     
  13. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    It's not really the hips - men can lay down much more muscle, and more easily. Women have a higher body fat ratio. Hormones have a lot to do with this, which is one reason that testosterone (apart from your natural levels, of course) is a banned substance in sport.
     
  14. Dill

    Dill Regular Member

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    I used to do martial arts and the emphasis was that the power came from the hips, I have seen women kicking men around and even young girls kicking grown men around so to say womens hips are not as strong as mens is a little off the mark.

    Gollum has given a better reasoning about hormones and muscle bulk or mass, this would be the determining factor.
     
  15. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    yes, speed is utmost important, even supercede stroke skill in my book. Note that speed sometime does not equal exactly to power but the aspects of speed and power are pretty close. I'm not trying to favor one group over another but fact of life dictates results. If one look at track and field sprinting (speed), and weight lifting (power), i'm pretty safe to say the best subjects are with XY chromosomes.
     
  16. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    I think I remember that discussion. I somehow agree with you that speed is very important, but stroke skill is equally important - you know that the speed the shuttle travels is also dependent of your stroke quality. You will be under pressure if you can't move at the required speed to return the shuttle - whether you are male or female.

    Discussing the outcome of Canadian male players versus the top ladies players in the world is hard. But my guess is the top ladies players will win. My reasoning is that these ladies players are very experienced and could very well read the shots. Playing with these top level ladies you can't rely only on power. You'll need skills too. Remember in one report where it mentions Ji XinPang, Sidney Olympic singles gold medalist lost to Gong ZhiChao in a singles game - even it was a handicap match where Ji was not allowed to smash, it can tell you their level.

    My coach was a Chinese men national team player. In early 80's and he was about 40 - he said played a few games against Zhang Ailing, at that time one of the top China national ladies player. He did win some and lost some and mentioned she was fast and had a powerful smash. Now, this is probably equivalent putting Ardy to play singles against the top ladies players. If the top Canadian players can beat Ardy in singles then probably they will be able to beat the top ladies players in singles too.
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    You are probably right, but let us put it in perspective. Your 40 years old coach would probably be ranked way above 1,000 in the world at the time when he played Zhang Ailing.
     
  18. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    To give a further indication about the ladies level, at about the same time he also had an exhibition game with a top singles player from HK squad (currently HK team coach?). While he was feeling well he led by 13-0, later had some problems and allowed the HK player to catch up. Even though he was not feeling well ( could see his face was pale), he finished the game 15-12. I believe HK singles players should be a bit higher in skills level compared to Canada.
     
  19. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The real Hong Kong girls are not that good. The best ones are imported from China. In men, they even import them from Indonesia besides China. But I think the local Hong Kong born women players can still beat the Canadians.
     
  20. Majin Legacy

    Majin Legacy Regular Member

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    Who CAN'T beat us Canadians??? :p
     
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