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Single is being played like Double?

Discussion in 'Professional Players' started by alfa2, Feb 7, 2007.

  1. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    Has anyone noticed tat the way of playing single nowadays has changed compared to decades ago? Eddy Chong, Foo Kok Keong they all would lob for hours in a match.......but not anymore, like doubles now, more smashing, attacking, drive, less lobbing and lifting (Lin Dan for instance).....even the service had changed from high to low, which is emulated from the double.

    mayb in another few decades time, we wont see lobs anymore in the single event. (like in a double match, lobbing is almost none to be seen now). The way and strategy of playing single is evolving..........
     
  2. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    Maybe thats the reason why LCW kept on losing to CHI players? because he played single like single in the past, not like every China players that played single with almost similar strategy to double? maybe we should get rexy to teach single too....:D:D:D:D

    BAM can save the extra money for not needing hire a single coach then. Maybe Lin Dan benefits alot from LYB's teaching, and as you can see LYB is a double player who is more familiar with double's strategy.

    What do you all think?
     
  3. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    double strategy ----- fast, accurate, attack and prevent the opponent from having the opportunity to make attacking shots.

    LCW should stop doing all those fancy tricks to lower the rate of making unforced errors..... e.g. double motion tricks can be hardly seen in double. The most efficient shot is to make it as fast and as accurate as possible. (Lin Dan)
     
  4. cheongsa

    cheongsa Regular Member

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    Clearless singles...

    That was sort of how the game was played when the scoring format was changed from 3x15 to 5x7.

    This sort of game play is much more demanding on the players. It also magnified the technical gap between good players and the very best players.

    Most importantly, it made the game very two-dimensional, and consequently very boring to watch.

    Professional players, playing practically at the limits of human performance, can choose to play like this only if they are confident they have the stamina to win a match. Some felt they do, but in reality are more or less drained by the end of the second game.

    In the current 3x21 rally point system, the games are long enough that none of the professional players can play clearless singles (and win in the end, that is).
     
  5. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    comparatively 3X21 rally point system is less exhaustive than the old 3X15 system where a match using the old system can lasts up to 90 minutes. Not to say that it has to be clearless in every match, but to only lift the shuttle when it's neccessary (under pressure), same goes with lobbing.....much much more attacking and less defensive play is what i meant. that's why it is very hard for others to beat Lin Dan....
     
  6. cheongsa

    cheongsa Regular Member

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    Just an observation: if you compare Lin Dan's games from two years ago (3x15, service point) to his games (3x21, rally point) this year, he appears to be smashing less and less (especially his big jump smashes and round the head smashes on his backhand side), and clearing more and more.
     
  7. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    i think it has less to do with the NSS but rather LD had evolved (ie. better training) into a mature, smarter and more all around player.
     
  8. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    is that so? hmmmm.......mayb u r right, or mayb he's getting old probably.:D:D:D:D:D actually if you really calculate the points of new rally points system which is 21 with service over, averagely it will add up to 11 points/game only (more or less like a women's game points in the past). so it's supposed to be less tiring. which also mean one can spend more energy attacking?

    and did u mean overhead smashes when you said "round the head smashes on his backhand side"?
     
    #8 alfa2, Feb 8, 2007
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2007
  9. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    I don't think singles and doubles are similar, far from it. Time and space in singles have an entirely different dimension from that in doubles. In singles the winning game is based on hitting the shuttle to the 4 extreme corners at varying heights using a variety of strokes, with the attacking clear in combination with your drops for attack, and control of the net to hobble your opponent's ability to return a good length return so that you can deliver the coup-de-grace. In doubles the first three shots are the most important and the objective is primarily one of executing a shot that will 'force' your opponents to lift.
    In the earlier years you could find singles players playing doubles for their country. The game of singles and doubles have become so disimilar today that singles and doubles players are do not mix.
     
  10. Baderz_Jas

    Baderz_Jas Regular Member

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    I agree with teenapak :)

    You rarely use the 4 corners in doubles to win a match. Most of the time it's just attacking at the body or driving ;)
     
  11. cheongsa

    cheongsa Regular Member

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    You have to divide the four corners by two players in doubles. That works out to two extreme points per player. ALL professional players can handle that comfortably.

    Try half-court singles. The rallies never end, if neither side smashes, and almost never ends, when both sides smash, either.
     
  12. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    hahaa....i think that centre line of the court sometimes makes a good killing spot too, especially when it's really targeted in the middle where both players will rush to get the shot and make mistakes.
     
  13. dranmo

    dranmo Regular Member

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    I can't really agree on single are now more like double. If you look at woman single, players who are in the top 5 are play single as it was.
    BUT with the new 21 point system, many are trying other possibility on finding a new and best way for the new system. Man single does become more aggressive and now with more young blood joining, you see more smashes and drive since they have the energy to attack more. Especially China Team always believe you need to get to the bird fast and being fast to the bird dominate their game plan, that one of the reason you see more drives and smashes during the game and also you see more and more young faces. also China worries with too many new blood, many experiences player have to retire before they hit peak which generate a lot of young players without stable mantel game mind and lack of experiences on handle different type game.

    Anyway different age group has a different style of game play, you can't really say single are more like double but i do believe game plan will start to change in the next few years after we study more on the new 21 point system.
     
  14. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    great synthesis dranmo

    great synthesis dranmo

    what i meant when i say "singles are being played more like doubles" is more or less what you have explained here: more attacking and aggressive play......

    "singles are being played more like doubles" is not what i meant literally....
     
  15. kidosetiawan

    kidosetiawan Regular Member

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    Man dats a very good point....so I thinkChristian Hadinata should go coach the singles too....or maybe Rexy can come back to Indonesia n coach us...btw if u see Lin Dan's game there are 2 ppl sitting in there...one is Li yong bo n I dunno who is the other one I think is singles coach
     
  16. alfa2

    alfa2 Regular Member

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    maybe KKK should go play single then......:D:D:D
     
  17. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    The game of badminton is not static. It would be better if we allow a "hundred flowers bloom, a thousand thoughts contend" (from Mao Tse Tung) so that different countries and/or different schools or coaching find different ways of adapting to the new game. How else can you progress if all players follow just one system or method?
    Remember the game of soccer? In my time we had 5 forwards consisting of center forward, inside right, inside left, and two wingers, 3 centres consisting of centre half, right and left halfs, two full backs (yes we called them full backs), and a goalkeeper. Then the flying Dutchmen changed all that in the 1970s with their "total football". Today it is again different. To-morrow will also be different from today. That is adaptation or evolution.
    The same applies to badminton.
     
  18. sabathiel

    sabathiel Regular Member

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    I can relate to the statement that in badminton singles the game is being played more like doubles to an extent. Players serve small these days more often than high because they don't want to give their opponents the advantage to attack just like in doubles. We see more attacking clears rather than defensive clears. We also often see battle of drives and shots aimed at the body of the players unlike the long rallies from the old days. The singles game is also played at a faster and higher tempo similar to doubles. Having said that there are still differences between singles and doubles already mentioned by others here. The correct thing to say is that singles is played MORE like doubles rather than say singles is played like doubles.
     
  19. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    In the old days of Thomas Cup matches most of the top singles players also double up in doubles for their country. Even the great singles player Hartono played doubles for Indonesia. Today, singles players don't get to play doubles anymore. Surely, the widening difference between singles and doubles today must be a factor for this.
     
  20. sabathiel

    sabathiel Regular Member

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    I don't recall Rudy Hartono playing doubles in tournaments but I suppose he could have played doubles in team events such as the Thomas Cup against inferior teams. I can't see Rudy playing doubles in Thomas Cup against the top teams such as Malaysia or Denmark. I know that Liem Swie King played doubles at an elite level and won major titles with Christian Hadinata and Bobby Ertanto. If I am not mistaken Liem Swie King also sometimes played doubles and singles in Thomas Cup even against the top teams. To date as far as I know Liem Swie King is the only single player that I know who is also successful in singles and doubles at the elite level.

    In my opinion the reason why players no longer play singles and doubles anymore is not because there is a widening difference between singles and doubles today but rather to the more competitive nature of badminton today compared to the old days. Badminton today is more demanding in terms of fitness, speed and power which leads to a higher degree of specialisation. In the old days it is not until the semifinals or finals that badminton is played at a competitive level. In the earlier rounds players like Rudy Hartono wins comfortably in straight sets under 5 points. These days more people from different countries play badminton and it is not uncommon for a top seed to lose in the earlier rounds (eg Lin Dan in the 2004 Olympics losing to Ronald Susilo from Singapore). The matches in earlier rounds are also more competitive. In light of this more demanding task it is foolish for a singles player to also compete in doubles.

    In the old days doubles specialist like Christian Hadinata manage to play singles and doubles and do well. Christian made it to the All England finals in 1973 where he lost to Rudy in the finals relatively easy (under 5 in both sets if I am not mistaken).

    Peter Gade was the World Junior doubles champion and became a singles specialist and has done very well. Recently we see Xie Xuan Ze an ex singles player playing mixed doubles but he only plays doubles when he no longer plays singles. It's not that singles players can't play doubles these days as a good singles players would be able to play doubles at a reasonable level but rather the more demanding nature and more competitive nature of badminton makes it extremely strenuous to play singles and doubles.

    Why do you think singles players mostly serve small these days? A lot of them also serves small with a backhand serve usually most common in doubles. The basic strateggy in doubles is to keep the shuttle down to prevent your opponent from attacking (smashing). This has become the common singles strategy today. The players of old basic singles strategy (especially Euroepean players) is to rally and out manouvre their opponents by moving them to the four corners of the court. A smash is only employed as a coup de grace to end the rally at the right time. Although Rudy is one of the pioneers of an agressive style of play Rudy is only employs a smash at this very right time to end the rally and is better known as a master tactician rather than a truly agressive/attacking player like Liem Swie King. Smashing to the body in the old days is unheard of and you could hardly witness a battle of drives between players. Players serve long to the baseline because they know that this is the beginning of long rallies commonly seen in those days. Serving small is rarely seen in singles in those days and serving small with a backhand serve (ala doubles serve) is unheard of. Even the European players who traditionally is the rallying type plays an attacking style of badminton commonly seen in doubles in the old days. Peter Gade even serves small with a backhand serve when even the European doubles player of the old days serves with a forehand.

    All these changes in singles are mainly influenced by not giving your opponent the chance to attack by hitting the shuttle down and not lifting the shuttle high which is the traditional tactic of playing doubles. Obviously there are still differences between doubles and singles but it is incorrect to say that there is a widening difference between singles and doubles today (this conclusion is not backed up with premises or explanations as to how one can come to this conclusion in terms of how doubles and singles are played today). If anything there is a narrowing difference between men's singles and men's doubles today as I already explained.
     
    #20 sabathiel, Mar 1, 2007
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2007

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