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Smash defense - Backhand dominant vs both forehand and backhand

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by SSSSNT, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    Coach Lee Jae Bok teaches both forehand and backhand smash defense. But why do so many top ranked international players use backhand dominant smash defense? Does it come down to preference? Which do you think is better?
     
  2. charliebadders

    charliebadders Regular Member

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    Simple, in the thumb grip you defend in a whole circle, it can defend head height, right side, centre and left side. Where as in forearm grip because of the limiting flexibility of the wrist it is very very hard to defend your backhand side and body. However if it were a ft/ half a metre away to your forehand side it would be very hard to get power using a backhand grip due to the range of motion of the shoulder therefore a forehand grip would be used.
     
  3. R20190

    R20190 Regular Member

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    A backhand bias grip is best for defence in doubles.

    BH grip allows you to cover more area than forehand and is arguably stronger than forehand for the very short strokes that defence requires. The only trouble with BH grip is obviously returning on the forehand side. If you can't change grip fast enough, then you may be forced to return a smash to the forehand with a backhand grip - not ideal.

    So, the secret is in being able to change to a forehand grip quickly - if there's time. Sometimes the smashes are so fast, you simply don't have time.

    One of the ways to enable you to change grip quickly, is to relax your backhand grip and leave a small gap between the bottom of the "V" of your hand and the handle. This allows you to switch very quickly compared to gripping the handle fully. This is very useful if a smash unexpectedly comes in high and flat - near the shoulder area of the racquet arm where a BH grip will struggle to return.
     
  4. SSSSNT

    SSSSNT Regular Member

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    I guess I should have said backhand only vs balanced. I see a lot of top double players use the backhand only smash defense. They take smashes to their forehand side with their backhand.
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    As R20190 mentioned, backhand defence is better for 90% of situations... because forearm supination in backhand is faster and more powerful than pronation in forehand.

    The only time it's disadvantageous is when the smash is far on the forehand side. But if you have a good reach and technique like some of these pro players (eg. TBH, YYS, and especially LYD), then backhand defence is still the best.
     
  6. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    uhm, but you don't use supination for b/h defense - it's ulnar deviation (and grip tightening)!

    On the forehand side flexion will be used (well, at least the reverse of extension).
     
    #6 amleto, Jul 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    [​IMG]

    Perhaps you use mostly ulnar deviation, but I use mostly forearm supination. :p
     
  8. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Now now children... play nicely! You're all correct - backhand defence on the backhand side will use a lot of ulnar deviation (and may not use supination depending on what shot is played from where), but using a backhand grip on the forehand side will use much more supination!

    In all seriousness, for defence, I would definitely try to hold a relaxed thumb grip and take the majority of shots with a backhand action (including high drives on the forehand side if comfortable, and shots just to the forehand side of the racket shoulder).

    However, it is easy to simply relax the wrist and allow the racket to roll over to the forehand side (by relaxing, you end up with a forehandish grip anyway) and play the shots easily - i.e. there is no grip change, just a relaxation of the backhand grip.

    I would suggest that any shots wide on the forehand are taken with the forehand hitting action. Note: whilst professionals do defend backhand a lot, they tend to get into a lot of problem trying to defend with a backhand on the forehand side, the more successful defensive shots are played with a relaxed forehand hitting action.

    Good luck!
     
  9. amleto

    amleto Regular Member

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    If I play nice today do I get a gold star?
     
  10. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Really Matt? From my photo posted above, you use a purely karate chop action backhand defence? :eek:

    (there goes my gold star... :p)
     
  11. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Sometimes I do yes :) Especially when the shuttle comes around chest height close to the body!

    It all depends on what type of shot I want to play, and how fast and how high it comes ;) Obviously its not applicable all the time!
     
  12. OhSearsTower

    OhSearsTower Regular Member

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    i see that backhand defense all the time in my club

    however i dont think it is done properly

    as i learned a lot of LJBs youtube videos, i stick to his smash defense...i tried the backhand defence in training and it worked surprisingly well for the first try, but in game i feel like my reach is very bad with this technique..if the smash doesnt come into my direct reach on the body or to the backhand side its a mess
    and i also see other players doing it all the time relatively unsuccessful...especially when the shuttle comes to the forehand side where they would have got the shuttle back relatively easy with a normal preparation...

    so i do it only if there is a very fast smash coming (opponent in his middle or even frontcourt) when i expect to have no reaction time anyway..in the hope the shuttle comes to my racket somehow :D

    as long as i think i will have enough reaction time i defend with neutral grip and see what comes..


    maybe the pros are able to change back to normal quickly enough so they can benefit from the backhand defenses advantages and not suffer the disadvantages as i see them often
     
  13. |_Footwork_|

    |_Footwork_| Regular Member

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    You have enough time to change the grip??

    You must be super fast, or your opponent's smashes must be really bad...
     
  14. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    I use mainly BH defence. The main issue I find is other people defending forehand, we clash or both leave it.

    I want to see visors karate chop now, I thought that was locked wrist and rotate round the elbow not wrist, but I digress.
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ Not me who uses the karate chop defence... it's Matt and amleto. ;)
     
  16. DuckFeet

    DuckFeet Regular Member

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    Not for defense, your actual karate chop. Ulnar deviation couldn't chop a carrot!
    Back on topic, I think I supinate.
     
  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Got to say I find it weird you don't ever hit a backhand using just the wrist (no forearm) - haven't you ever hit a tap net kill? Or a tap drive? Its the same as using just the wrist in defence when someone hits at the body.

    Most professionals do it on occasion too... :p
     
  18. T.O.P

    T.O.P Regular Member

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    Not really expert on it. But normally I convert smash to drive for my defense. It's the best defense instead of just lift high i think. :confused:
     
  19. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    I used to agree with Lee about this -- he's persuasive and logical -- but not any more. I think Lee is wrong about smash defence for doubles.

    Watch any professional game of doubles. You will see the players prepare on their backhand, and they will play most defence using a backhand.

    In doubles the defenders can cover the width of the court well. Their problem is that the smashes are very powerful, and the front attacker will pick off any loose blocks to the net. They need to cope with smashes aimed at the body, and this is where backhand defence shines.

    In singles it's different. The smashes are usually less powerful, and even a loose block to the net can be a good shot. The problem for the singles defender is different: he has a lot of court width to cover. Smashes are typically aimed to the sides, making the defender move and take the shuttle much later.

    For singles, neutral defence -- the style Lee recommends -- is typically better. You need to move quickly to either side.
     
  20. opikbidin

    opikbidin Regular Member

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    preferrance of backhands on smash defence explains why so many smashes to the forehand said are mostly badly returned or aren't returned.

    but according to my experience, sometimes preparing on the forehand side is a good choice, but only if your partner has a different dominant hand than you. I'm right handed, while my partner is left handed. at first, we don't know why we somehow can't return the smashes. it took awhile, but we figured out it's better to prepare on the forehand side.

    maybe the reason is same for singles, because it has a wider reach and can cover more.

    I usually see professional players in the middle, but for us, it seems better or more natural if we are on the sides, I'm on left side while he who is left handed on the right side. when we do on the middle formation, it seems our return always go to the middle, or when we try to keep it straight, it goes wide. but if we stay at the sides and leave the middle empty, our return are normally to the sides.

    I don't know if it's right or wrong. but I usually play like this with my left hand partner.
     

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