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Smashing strong without massive muscles?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Heong, Sep 2, 2009.

  1. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    Hey guys.

    I've noticed something.
    Lately i've been watching some badminton games and i've noticed how powerful the more lankier/skinnier people smash even though they don't like massive biceps like Lin Dan does.

    I was wondering if weights would benefit me in my power strokes, particularly the smash.

    I've seen alot of pros like Tan Boon Heong smash so strong even though his biceps are not as massive.

    So i'm guessing their power comes mainly from wrist? body rotation? fingers? or swing speed?

    Help appreciated. :)
     
  2. Dokkie

    Dokkie Regular Member

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    I think the main thing is not about the power of your biceps, but your wrist. Work the power of your wrist. Good Luck
     
  3. paulstewart64

    paulstewart64 Regular Member

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    You are confusing muscle size against muscle strength. You can train your arm muscles to be very strong and bulky, but you need endurance and power, not bulk. Even something as simple as press ups can help if they're done correctly. Try doing say 5 really slowly which is strength related compared 5 really fast which is explosive power.

    There's lots of exercises like this for the wrists, forearms etc which help. Also having a very strong core will give you more power. Check out my blog www.badminton-coach.co.uk for simple armchair exercises that develop both strength and flexibility on your wrist.
     
  4. Heong

    Heong Regular Member

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    Thanks guys for your responses!

    Yea it's as i thought, but my dad says training biceps and upper body muscles increase smash power, but i say to him "that's non-sense!" :D

    Yea i have a way or training wrist, using a small dumbell.
    I grasp it and lift it up and down using the wrist with my palm facing upward direction.
     
  5. krisss

    krisss Regular Member

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    So your saying , when doing weights we should do them quickly , so that it builds explosive muscle?
     
  6. drkzxeraph

    drkzxeraph Regular Member

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    Don't forget that pronation plays a huge role in generating power while smashing.

    So instead of doing wrist curls, you might want to pronate your forearm with dumbbells instead.

    Oh, btw, the muscle you use while pronating = triceps I believe.

    Corrections would be welcome :)
     
  7. OHMAHGAWDZ

    OHMAHGAWDZ Regular Member

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    Keep in mind that power doesn't just come from the shoulder/tricep/bicep/forearm. Strong quads/glutes/core muscles also play a large part in any overhead stroke. Training these muscles will give you more power, speed, balance, and help to prevent injury.
    But if you don't have the necessary equipment or time, the forearm is probably the most important muscle group to train for more power. The wrist curls that you mentioned are a good way to do that.
     
  8. jafffa

    jafffa Regular Member

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    Like it has been mentioned before in the thread you need to train for strength AND power. 2 very different idea's. Strength is... say being able to lift 100Kg in ten seconds, wheras power is more like being able to lift 30kg in 2. Imo its easier to build strength and then convert it into power. Possibly use dumbells for strength and then a heavier racket swung quickly for power.

    Please anyone knows more on this correct me, i only have a laymans understanding on this, some info on plyometrics would be helpful.
     
  9. keith.roche

    keith.roche Regular Member

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    There are 2 types of muscle fibers..
    1) fast twitching
    2) slow twitching

    Fast twitching ones might be lean and tight.. wheras Slow twitching ones are those with HUGE mass.
    You need EXPLOSIVE FAST TWITCHING muscles for badminton.
    They need not be Huge in size.

    But the real power, comes from

    THE LEGS

    For instance, if we have 2 guys.. Guy A has strong lower body and skinny upper body and Guy B has strong upper body, and weak lower body, then Guy A would be much more explosive in Smashing.
     
  10. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    A smash is a very technical stroke. Coordination & timing is more important than strength. You need muscle (BTW LD oesn't have huge biceps).

    And like others have sid Finger, wrist & body rotation is important, not so much biceps. If you have big muscles you won't be able to have speed of movement as you arm is too heavy.
     
  11. daiqi

    daiqi Regular Member

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    HV U SEEN HIS UPPER ARM?!!?!?!
    LIN DAN HAS HUGE ARM MUSCLES
     
  12. Sevex

    Sevex Regular Member

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    I'd say it's all in the technique and timing of the shot, I've seen juniors smashing hard with little muscle. Also making sure you are behind the shuttle (not sure how to explain how far).

    Then again having more muscle in your core is very good for keeping everything stable, no point in having huge arms and legs if that power isn't being controlled.

    Also I think badminton needs fast and slow twitch muscle fibre, no point in having the huge power if it runs out half way through a rally.

    I'm not sure about keith.roche statement about muscle fibre types. Fast twitch fibres have more bulk, just look at sprint runners compared to marathon runners. They are also denser, therefore heavier than slow twitch? Too much muscle bulk can impede movement, although I doubt badminton players would be looking for that much muscle.

    If I'm wrong please correct.

    If you want to learn to smash hard try watching someone at your club who does, watch their body movement, maybe ask them how they smash. Or the expensive option, try and find a coach!
     
  13. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Yes I have, and IMO no, they are not.

    Can anyone find a dimension anwhere on the net?
     
  14. stumblingfeet

    stumblingfeet Regular Member

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    Yes, that's correct. Fast twitch fibres are much larger than slow twitch ones. However, too much "bulk" is not really something for most people to worry about - by doing strength training one doesn't wake up one day with huge muscles. It's a very gradual process which tends to slow down the more muscle you gain, there's no way to get "too much" muscle by accident.
     
  15. singnflip4life

    singnflip4life Regular Member

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    I think its timing and harmony. If you have one person who has massive triceps but wimpy muscles everywhere else, he'd be outsmashed by someone who has learned to move all his muscles in unison and harmony together.

    "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

    and of course, you need good technique.
     
  16. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Regular Member

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    you just have to play a lot to built up that muscle memory on your arms/wrist/legs/body exclusively for badminton to do such a thing. this skinny vietnamese guy that i go to school with can do smashes no one can return. he's been playing for 10+ years.

    but yea fast twitch muscles.
     
  17. disney

    disney Regular Member

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    Shud say that smashing is easy..a good smash or so call "proper smash" is a combination of a group of movement that involve foot until ur racket..there is a video in youtube showing the actual movement of a professional player smashing in slow motion and as well analyzing it through computer.

    basically, is wen you jump, u bend ur knee and the ur foot will start to collect power and energy..wen u started 2 jump, the power n energy started to transfer for lower body 2 upper body..u will be bending ur hip in S motion to genarate more power and transfer them to the shoulder..then u r about to swing out a smash..the differences is, usually normal people don't swing with their wrist..wen u ar just swing ur shoulder and ur arm to attemp a smash, ur smash will still b fast enough to kill ur opponent..bt its fast bt wightless or so call powerless; as if u swing with ur wrist, the shulter will move a bit faster bt carry certain weight or v call it powerfull..this will cause ur opponent need more power to return the shulter to backcourt..if the opponent doesn't hv enough wrist power, usually the shulter might happen returning to the mid court and there is where the kill happens..
     
  18. extremenanopowe

    extremenanopowe Regular Member

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    Its the whole package.. ;)
     
  19. gamepurpose

    gamepurpose Regular Member

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    I thought the faster the speed of the bird the less power it takes to send the bird back.
    make it an obvious example:
    smash vs drive.
    well you get the picture. takes a lot of movement or racquet motion to return the drive than a smash.
     
  20. dorysan

    dorysan Regular Member

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    hmm...to give an awesome
    you dont need huge muscles to give an awesome smash!
    you need strong muscles.
    im not big, even so i got the 4th strong smash at my club.
    its your technique and stability of you body.
     

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