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still trying to perfect my forearm pronation

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Gold-, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. Gold-

    Gold- Regular Member

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    still trying to perfect my forearm pronation i cant seem to get it . it felt like i am slicing the shuttle and i always miss the direction that i wan it to be it seems hard to control the shuttle. does anybody have a proper video or short summary on forearm pronation?? or should i abandon the forearm pronation and change back to the full arm swing?
     
    #1 Gold-, Jun 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  2. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    First, check your grip.

    Hitting with arm rotation is more difficult to control than simply hitting with a flat movement ("panhandling"). It's worth persevering, however, because using arm rotation correctly will get you much more power than panhandling.

    You may find it helpful to imagine that you're going to hit the shuttle with the side of the racket frame -- leading with your little finger. Then, momentarily before impact, you "change your mind", and violently twist your arm inwards. Tighten your grip at this point. This grip tightening, as well as transferring power, helps you to control the shuttle.

    By the way, it's not just your forearm that rotates. Your upper arm does too -- make sure you're not trying to hit with "only forearm".
     
  3. krisss

    krisss Regular Member

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    When using the pronation technique , I have a few questions :

    What is the preparation , is it still an almost "scratch the shoulder" type of preperation leading into the little finger facing first with the racket butt facing the opponent then the pronation technique? Or is it another order?

    And when using the pronation technique , say if I have done the preparation , and my racket butt is facing the opponent , with my little finger first (first to the opponent) , what is the actual hitting action?

    Would the racket go over , or around?

    Over , bending your wrist straight over the racket.
    Around , rotating the forearm ?

    I really want to learn the correct technique as I think mine is wrong!
     
  4. Arrg Noooooo...

    Arrg Noooooo... Regular Member

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    Foreare pronation is one of the most important things i've worked on so far. It's completely transformed my playing and i'm still only new to it. Clearing is just so effortless now.

    I'm sorry kriss i can't offer you any help as i'm only just getting the hang of it, watching as much badminton as possible has really helped. Hopefully Gollum will offer some more advice.
     
  5. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    We need to distinguish between different phases:

    1. Preparation
    2. Backswing
    3. Forwards swing

    It's easy to get mixed up about the first two. The preparation happens as soon as you realise the you're going to play an overhead shot. Even as you're turning your body to move, your racket should be coming up and your elbow moving back towards an "archer" position.

    Coaches used to teach a "scratch your back" style of preparation, which had the advantage of being easy to teach. Unfortunately, "scratch your back" is very limiting; you'll never see a top player do this.

    "Scratch your back" does often happen (well, almost) during the backswing of a powerful stroke such as a smash. Even the term "backswing" can be confusing here: it feels like a forwards swing, as you bring your elbow up and forwards -- but your racket, at the same time, is dropping back. This part of the swing, which I'm calling the "backswing", is very much the same as what you've called the "preparation".

    At this point, you have supinated the forearm (and externally rotated the upper arm at the shoulder), and your elbow and racket butt are somewhat facing the opponent. From this position, you complete the hitting action with the "forwards swing" -- where you pronate the forearm (and internally rotate at the shoulder).

    Note that this "backswing" and "forwards swing" should feel very much like one movement -- indeed, some people would call the whole thing a forwards swing. Note also that in order to use pronation on the forwards swing, it's essential to supinate on the backswing.

    In other words, the arm turns outwards first, which "makes space" for it to turn inwards (and thereby generate power).


    If I've understood you're question correctly, it's equivalent to asking, "Do I hit with a bent elbow or a straight elbow?"

    In general, you straighten the elbow as you complete the shot, so that you hit the shuttle approximately above your head at full relaxed reach. You definitely don't want to "lock out" your joints in an effort to reach up -- small angles at the joints are essential for power.

    So at the moment of impact, the angle inside your elbow should be more than 90 degrees and less than 180 degrees. As a rough guide, 135 degrees would be about right.
     
    #5 Gollum, Jun 30, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  6. krisss

    krisss Regular Member

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    Gollum as always your information is like treasure :)!

    Just some parts seem quite difficult to understand.

    Any chance for a "correct pronation technique" in the badminton bible!?:cool:
     
  7. Arrg Noooooo...

    Arrg Noooooo... Regular Member

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    Thank-you Gollum that has confirmed that i am atleast heading in the right direction with my overhead swing.
    Heh, i've been sat here for about 30 minutes trying to think of a way to explain it in laymens terms but i can't, i'm sorry.

    The Badminton Bible is literally my bible at the moment, some new articles would always be appreciated.
     
  8. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Thanks, I really appreciate comments like that -- they are very encouraging. :)

    I've been finding it difficult to dedicate enough time to making new content for the website. It's been dormant for far, far too long. :( However, I'm hoping to get some substantial new stuff ready for about mid-September. :)

    At the moment I have absolutely nothing up there about hitting techniques, except for the service and the odd aside from the grips guide. Explaining arm rotation, and in particular the technique for an overhead forehand, is a high priority.

    I definitely agree that "some parts seem quite difficult to understand". It is quite a complex movement -- there's a lot of details that all have to come together to make the technique work well, and there's complications involved in training for such a fast movement. I need to give this plenty of thought so I can find a good way of presenting it; I already have a good collection of ideas from various sources, but the trick will be organising them so that the whole thing makes sense, and presenting them clearly.

    One of the difficulties in coaching this stuff is finding the balance between "simple coaching points" and "anatomically accurate descriptions". "Keep it simple" has strong merits, and I feel that constantly talking about pronation and supination often ends up confusing players; on the other hand, I don't agree with the modern KISS monomania, which essentially says, "all players are stupid, so let's not tell them anything of substance." ;)
     
  9. alexh

    alexh Regular Member

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    Same here--since finding these forums, I'm in the process of reassessing my technique. It's disturbing how much you can think you're pronating when you're not actually doing much at all :-/

    Watching top-level badminton is great. 100 pictures (*) are worth a thousand words :) Get into the video sharing thread and search for the CCTV coaching videos (coaches Zhao Jianhua and Xiao Jie). They take a bit of finding, but they contain a lot of slow-motion replays of basic techniques--you can see these things really clearly.

    (Paying attention to Gollum is great too ;-)

    ----

    (*) = two to four seconds of video
     
  10. drkzxeraph

    drkzxeraph Regular Member

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    Clarification?

    I don't know if this will help clear up Gollum's info at all, but this is how I was taught pronation for my smashes:

    After the good ol' "archer" position, you rotate your elbow and racket until your elbow is pointing somewhat forward and your racquet is somewhere near your back. Your forearm should be rotated in such a way that your pinky finger and the racket butt is pointing toward your opponent, as if your were going to bring your racquet down in a chopping motion, with the hitting face of your racquet pointing toward your body.

    On the forward swing, your arm should rotate 90 degrees, which is when it will contact the birdie (so that the racquet face is flat to prevent any unwanted slicing). After that, your arm should continue to rotate another 90 degrees on the follow through, ending up with your hitting face turned away from your body.

    badmintonbible also has an article that illustrates a small adjustment in the grip for smashing that's different from the grip you would use to clear/drop that works for some people, so you might want to check that out too.

    On a side note, does anyone know how to explain supination on a backhand clear well? :confused:
     
  11. Gold-

    Gold- Regular Member

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  12. jebatdurhaka

    jebatdurhaka Regular Member

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    well .. I myself is still figuring out the correct pronation. so take my words here with a lot of doubts .. :)

    when i started (after reading postings in BC) .. I also had the same problem .. we mis-time and slice the shuttle lot of times. then i found few postings explained the breakdown of the forward swing ..

    simply said .. for forward swing, you have 2 phase .. slow and fast. you start with slow swing; rotate your shoulder, bring your elbow forward .. and then you accelerate it to hit the shuttle at the highest rackethead speed ..

    pronation should only happening duirng the 2nd phase. during the fast phase. then you have a good smooth full swing ..

    it improved my pronation .. (i think so ..). hopefully it helps you too ..
     

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